Can we give Gnomes Detect Invisibility Racial ?
They are natural with it. 103% Detect Invisibility.
This only benefits Melees, since Mages already have the spell.
And Gnomes Melees frankly are a Challenge to play already.
Most people already know how to see invis at 30+, so this mostly affects by saving them Consumable Trips.
In the early days of CF we allowed for this Mya, for the reasons you state. I am not sure why it was taken away but l have always guessed that it had something to do with granting gnome thieves the ability to see all the ninjas. On a side note concerning gnomes, their incredible int/wis allows them to learn their skills so fast and proficiently that likely the powers that be decided they did not need this extra bonus. My gnome blademaster mastered almost every stance within a half an hour of common ranking, my gnome mages master their spells in ussualy less than an hour. Feats that take less mentally gifted classes days sometimes. This is what I love about gnomes, you can see the effects of spell/skill mastery very quickly. And then there is the high number of practices left for conversion into health, but lets face it without that extra health gnomes would fall fast at the higher ranks.
Not disagreeing with you, not agreeing with you, just putting the facts on the table for future readers of this thread.
I say we remove gnomes from the game.
However, I also support MYA'S idea to give them detect invis.
Seriously, Mya... what's with those suggestions? First, give combat religion clerics +1 size and now this... like it's gonna change anything? +1 size hardly benefits clerics, just like natural detect invis would really mean anything for a gnome... even if it is a mele type.
This thread is a month Old...
It is a good idea...
Gnomes meele are weak and have no reason to play. This makes them interesting...
As did the Bash vulnerability + Trip IMMunity in the Old days.
Wasn't that more like a blunt attack vuln?
You are Xxxxx, loyal believer in way of Church and powers of Faith.
Level 50, 152 years old (96 hours).
Race: human Sex: male Class: Paladin
Hometown: Rheydin Alignment: Evil Ethos: neutral
You have 786/786 hit, 680/680 mana, 403/403 movement.
You have 3 practices and 0 training sessions.
You are carrying 11/37 items with weight 50/425 pounds.
Str: 21(21) Int: 20(20) Wis: 20(20) Dex: 20(20) Con: 18(18)
You have scored 484253 exp, and have 664 gold coins.
Condition: You have a few cuts and bruises.
Luck: You feel very lucky.
Wimpy set to 200 hit points.
You are standing.
Armor: pierce: 2 bash: 2 slash: 2 magic: 26
Save vs Spell: 0 Affliction: 0 Malediction: 0 Mental: -10
You are armored against piercing.
You are armored against bashing.
You are armored against slashing.
You are somewhat armored against magic.
Hitroll: 9 Damroll: 12.
Wasn't that more like a blunt attack vuln?
Yes, it was. Think of fire to a feral was what blunt used to be to a gnome (just ask Pali :-P ). This is gone now though - they are mental vuln these days I believe(?) It made gnome bmages very interesting/strong though due to force field.... Given the spell set, a gnome bmage is probably still quite strong...
I don't think gnomes have no reason to play..... For what they are they get an insanely high amount of pracs - and hp by extension. As has also been noted - they learn crazy fast.
I'm against giving perm_detect_invis to them mostly because it only comes on one high lvl item and in one other situation. I don't think its fair to devalue these by handing to a race. Everyone else is able to keep their non-detect classes seeing invis 100% of the time (well, I am....). Its not that hard.
L-A
Yes' date=' it was. Think of fire to a feral was what blunt used to be to a gnome (just ask Pali :-P ).[/quote']
Psh. You make it sound like you were the one beating me up because of the vuln, when it was really just Kentry.
"For what they are they get an insanely high amount of pracs - and hp by extension."
This bonus is overrated.
Gnomes can be the following classes:
Bard, Warrior, Ranger, Thief, Invoker, Battlemage, and Blademaster.
Stat Maxes:
STR: 18 INT: 23 WIS: 25 DEX: 18 CON: 18
They got bad STR,DEX,CON for meeles.
Their 25 WISDOM means 5 pracs per Level. Meaning they have an extra 100 HP's from the extra 2 practices.
You can argue that high INT also saves practices. All, lets imagine a meele has 50 skills, which they do not.
So they get +150 HP's from extra practices over lets say a human.
But a human has +2 CON points. That around +75HP's or around it.
So now you have a 18 STR/DEX human with +75 HP's and a Mental vulnerability.
Human:
21 STR - more Hit/Dam, more weapons to wield, more carry weight
20 DEX - Average Dex
20 CON - average Regeneration
Bonus to magic items ???
Gnome:
18 STR - less hit/dam, less weapons to wield, weakened defences/offence
18 DEX - Worse AC, Less 2 items, weakened defences/offence
18 CON - Slightly worse regeneration
Bonus + 75 HP's
Mental Vulnerability
See, you are better of playing a Human.
Mya - I think that comparison omits the follow necessary points:
Int and wis being so high equates to better mental casting for the gnome. This is especially important on the mage classes with...oh...dispel magic.
Int and wis that high equate to far better mana gain for the gnome. Again, mages gain from this but I can say from experience having more mana can assist from time to time on melee classes.
So you'd have more hp, more mana, better mana gain, more bonus to certain spells and a vulnerability.
A human has less hp, less mana, less mana gain, more hit gain and magic bonus.
It doesn't look to be such a bad deal to me.
L-A
You are leaving out the big negative of gnomes unusually small genitalia.
You are leaving out the big negative of gnomes unusually small genitalia.
It appears I have been corrected. We should have them auto-hellstream in combat - but only at 10% proficiency as they would clearly lack the confidence to cast the spell properly due to their 'small' complex :-P
L-A
It appears I have been corrected. We should have them auto-hellstream in combat - but only at 10% proficiency as they would clearly lack the confidence to cast the spell properly due to their 'small' complex :-P
L-A
Ugh. I just got a flashback of a little bunny destroying my gear with hellstreams 
L.A. the idea is giving them Detect Invis as racial bonus.
This affects Meeles. All Mages classes have this in their spell list already.
Dispel magic, is not the most used spell by gnome warriors... 
I think your train of thought omitted this
And by the way, you will find no diference betwin a dispel magic casted by a Squid or a Gnome, with a dispel casted by a Fire Giant Shaman.
Something that i disagree, Low INT classes should be worse casters. But it appears only mana pools are affected.
Human:
21 STR - more Hit/Dam, more weapons to wield, more carry weight
20 DEX - Average Dex
20 CON - average Regeneration
Bonus to magic items ???
Gnome:
18 STR - less hit/dam, less weapons to wield, weakened defences/offence
18 DEX - Worse AC, Less 2 items, weakened defences/offence
18 CON - Slightly worse regeneration
Bonus + 75 HP's
Mental Vulnerability
See, you are better of playing a Human.
+75 HP bonus? Are you joking me?
This is a productive thread. Thank you Mya.
I would like to take it back to the thief for a moment.
Lore 100%
Defuse 100%
Scrolls 100%
I know you are thinking of toe to toe combatants, but if you give it to a race, someone will surely find a way to abuse it. I am still undecided on this. However, the comments on this thread are enlightening.
Lore, ... do you use that thing ? I just head to to you know who or buy a ID scroll.
Defuse ... Defuse what ? That trap that gets you killed ? Cause i am fine with my Clerics defusing skills. You can defuse with any character.
Book Worm ? You can take that with a human And there are better ones like the one that grants Mercy.
Lore' date=' ... do you use that thing ?[/quote']
All the time. While unpopular, I choose to pretend that my characters do not know everything I know. Because, such is by its very nature out of character information, I choose to try and avoid it. Example, I generally try and do quests in a different random order each time. This way I can pretend this new character just stumbled across, what my brain could never forget. Lore to me, is a tool I can use for RP. My character may lore a fiery dagger, I know the properties and origin, but suddenly so does this character. Its harder, its unpopular, but it brings me closer to my character and allows for a more indepth role.
Wis allows better defuse and the seeing of traps. If you're never fought a lvl 50 thief then you don't know how useful this could be. Mya, I think you're clerics have the detect spell - but as a warrior you don't. Knowing where that chestbuster or antimagic is can save your life ;-)
f0xx: I ran the figures - gnomes get a pretty large hp bonus from trains. I'm not convinced 2 con = 75 hp in a 50 rank turn around but I've never pinnacled a gnome. Pali or Toten will be able to give insight on a gnome invokers hp - but I thought they got close to 1000hp. I haven't seen a human do this.
Mya: Mostly, I don't agree with devaluing detect magic on melee's with this. As I've stated - one 'situation', one high level item and ONE cabal hand it out easy. I can't tell you how much easier it is in either of those situations. SO much easier for melee. SO much.
Also, gnomes are not the gimps you make them out to - that was the crux of my former posts.
Cheers,
L-A
