@ Teralis: you seem to be missing the point. I have no problems with ninjas sitting in sitties trying to be stealth. What I have a problem with is a ninja running around my studying me. You obviously never fought Skia.
@ Myrek: this is a good advice, I might put my flame shield on and put it into practice.
I have no problems with ninjas sitting in sitties trying to be stealth. What I have a problem with is a ninja running around my studying me.
I haven't fought as a ninja or against a ninja in ages. Is the problem that their assassinate is too powerful or that their melee is so powerful that they don't fear open combat?
@ Teralis: you seem to be missing the point. I have no problems with ninjas sitting in sitties trying to be stealth. What I have a problem with is a ninja running around my studying me. You obviously never fought Skia.
Hmm Skia Feral ninja, I have fought many of his kind and still havent been caught be them. Maybe the problem isnt the skill, maybe its something else.
Hmmm maybe Ill make a ninja to test out these new changes(go ahead say it)
The problem is, once an information that is burned (meditated upon) cannot be lost even if the ninja is under attack, which allows a ninja to study you piece by piece quite nicely even if you are actively fighting her.
Hmmm wow didnt know that maybe this will help?
quit
So we are back to square one
sorry I enjoyed playing my 2 ninjas and no they were not full assassination ninjas. Both had shadow arts and would say with Teralis I only assassinated only about 25% of the time there as with the other it was more like 50% both we also in seperate cabals Hunter, Nexus. and both were undead. I just dont see the reason to kill a class just because some people do not feel assassinate should be a skill because of run by tactics. Does the us army take snipers out of the mix because can shoot someone from great distances no, as a matter of fact they have saved many lives for thier cause perhaps look at assassins like this as well huh? And if I was getting asassinated 3 times a day I still would not agree with you sorry. Take Myreks advice and roll with it. Myrek if my Ninja con dies at 40 I owe you big time.
What kind of comparison is that?
And what do you mean with "I just dont see the reason to kill a class"? Noone wants to kill the ninjas as a class since ninjas are not all about assassinate!
What kind of comparison is that?
And what do you mean with "I just dont see the reason to kill a class"? Noone wants to kill the ninjas as a class since ninjas are not all about assassinate!
Ninjas are assassins, take away assassinate they are no longer the same class.
Since we are talking about taking away class specific abilities lets take steal away from thieves I hate losing eq so bag I cant tell you how bad it hurts to finally get something that took 1 2 even 3 months to aquire and have it ripped of my sleeping body.
Eh, why not? Everyone wants thieves to lose pry and steal.
Ninjas are assassins, take away assassinate they are no longer the same class.
Since we are talking about taking away class specific abilities...
Please do not put words into my mouth. I never said "Take away".
I don't mind arguing with stubborn people, as long as they actually read what I post
That is the only way to take the way your putting it, ok then since you seem I am making assumptions what do you suggest we do about what you hate about the class in general, sounds like you hate the one study burn which I have never used personally so instead of argueing how about making this constructive?
I will think of something and post in a minute.
Assassinate: Through close study, the ninja has gained much knowledge in the weaknesses of their victim, allowing for them to strike weak points on the body and generally increasing the damage they receive.
Maybe?
Make study a skill you can only use in the shadows, would stop the run by in the forest get a tic run out burn method.??????
I say let's just go with it in game and see if those who get assassinated all the time, actually get assassinated. I'm sure the staff took an in depth look into the skill, and changed the percentages of it that allowed one to assassinate.
What jibber said. Lets see how the change works out and what more they have in store for future.
The problem is' date=' once an information that is burned (meditated upon) cannot be lost even if the ninja is under attack, which allows a ninja to study you piece by piece quite nicely even if you are actively fighting her.[/quote']
I don't know if you haven't played a ninja, its been changed since I have or your just giving us a carefully doctored subset of the facts to support your case.
So, lets compare notes and work out exactly what is happening in an assassinate:
Ninja starts to study.
Affects: Study: 5 hours
Ninja gain info. every tick they are in the same area and in Line of Sight of you.
If the ninja is attacked within these 5 hours they lose any study up until this point eg if you hit them at 1 hour to go they lose 4 ticks of study.
At the end of the 5 hours the ninja must 'meditate' to gain study. When I used to assassinate I'd give myself 5 hours hidden to get all the info - this seemed to yeild better results than just giving 1 hour and reactiating study.
I haven't used falcon eye - but it used to take 2 full studies (10 'study' ticks) to get enough info if you got it all 'burned in' after study. Its obviously faster under falcon eye.
- The ninja now must 'assassinate' you - of course the prefered method is strangle;blind;assassinate as this:
a) Lows ac
Blinds you
c) Is easier to hit sleeping people
There were always other factors in play - and I assume they have been tweaked in the change that started this thread as with the source release people go a little too clever and found holes to abuse. Why else would it be changed?
So, its simply not 'type study, run around catching ticks' - its five tick lots and you have to sit still after this. This gives the victim ample time to get away. You then lose study over time if you can't find the person to assassinate them. You can also only study ONE person at a time. Change targets and you lose your current study info and have to start again.
The easiest way to not get assassinated is to keep moving - once you're out of area the ninja can't study you (wasn't like this when I had my ninja, was a major change quite a while ago). Once you break LOS they can't study you. If you see the ninja in the open give them a kick in the teeth to keep them on their toes and then GET MOVING. Unless you have them unable to hide you play into their hands chasing them while they are hiding and popping up and down. Make them come to you - in a forest, or water or desert.
Assassinate is an open only command, you can sit and spam murder and I imagine the ninja will find it VERY hard to get their assassinate in. If you chase them so they can spam assassinate more fool you. They lose their study over time so simply run away. They are on the clock - you are now. Llama ninja's quit to keep study when targets do - so if you can ditch them they must either quit or risk re'doing the study.
If you can't lag, spam murder if they have studied you, hire a bounty hunter to give them a hard time (they can't study two people at once), hire someone else to give them a hard time (perhaps we need a WM mercenary RP person...), hire a thief to give them a hard time. Or jug log off and let them lose the study. They have to log off to keep the study as well.
Most of all - accept you're doing something wrong if you get assassinated. It means the ninja outplayed you - much like the warrior bashing you to death. Assassinate is NOT a fast way to kill people. You can kill faster on a DK or even with a ninja in melee.
L-A
All nice points, L-A.
However, I do hope this change makes it so a ninja -can't- log out to keep their study. It was a big pet peeve of mine, and took OOC mechanics into mind when done. Just doesn't seem all that right.
To clarify, this was a change to correct a "legal exploitation" of the assassinate skill, so to speak. I am not going to go into details, but it doesn't mean you should start hanging out in cities (or even that assassinate was made less potent uniformly).
That said, one thing the staff doesn't like is how a lot of people turned assassination into a number crunching game with the availability of the old code. I know that Malch feels the same way and we recently decided that assassinate could use a rework. Assassinate should not be a formula or a near-guarantee, and rest assured that I will be giving it its share of attention. If any of you have suggestions, feel free to let us know either through PM or prayer.
RE: jibber. At the same time, how do we reconcile that with someone who needs to step away from the computer for five minutes after working for an hour or more on studying someone.
Nice points LA.
Now I am not a total A$$ on this topic however I feel that if Assassinate is toned to the point where is is working even 1/4 of what it was then I feel something else needs to happen to give them a little more appeal, I have allways wondered why Ninja only get one room for firing weapons I think they should have 2 or even 3. Obviously not as many as a ranger but this would
ensure more meele ninjas as opposed to just assassins.