...
If he opens with the ability that lags him the least, you can still flee IMMEDIATELY and begin running before he can recover. His zombies don't follow you, he doesn't follow you. You flee, and you run, or quaff a recall. If you were in buddha, it will be hard for him to land a blind first time as his opening move. In the event he does.. he's still lagged for 1 round, so you can flee and run blind.
Dey
flee for how long? one flee? necros dont even needa stay in the room. he can simply wait for me' date=' blind me and kill me while either i run blind and therefore am at a huge disadvantage since i cant see where im going. back myself into a room i cant get out of or something like that, or, i quaff a gyvel and lose my escape, rinse and repeat the whole scenario. defensive or not, bhudda or not, when the necro can keep you constantly in combat simply cause he doesnt need to stay in the room, you arent gonna win. you arent gonna get away.[/quote']
Mate you are really making fun of yourself now. The necro simply cannot blind you in buddha, especially if you have some other saves vs maledictive.
Secondly, no matter what, if you were in defensive stance you cannot be lagged by bash/trip.
Third, if the necro flees, the zombies flee as well. He either has to return REAL fast back in the room or he has to close the door of the only exit.
Forth, if you are in dragon and you are enlarged, this means you are larger than the zombies.
im supposed to do consumables while simultaneously running to empower/stance? cant do both at once.
Learn this skill. This will help you so much.
' date=' im not killing zombies. thats stupid.[/quote']
but can you really kill 3 zombies and a necro in a stance meant to fight melee classes?
This part made it sound that way. If not, don't worry about that part.
point is to go for the necro. but when the necro blinds you and runs' date=' and the zombie bashes you while you quaff a gyvel, you're pretty much stuck fighting the zombies til you can either find the necro or get away.[/quote']
Defensive, no bashy. Flight, no tripy. FLY. You could have lived earlier if you had been flying. Scrolls of flight only cost gold. Gold is like water, easy to get, worthless in and of itself, but the lack of it can get you killed.
And how do you have anats at 100 and not bother to master defenses? Defenses are priority 1. On every character with every class. No exceptions. If I train nothing else on a character, I master defenses.
And...BUDDAH! Try it. Especially if you already have decent gear, see how often he can blind you. I bet not so often. Oh and fly. And master defenses. And fly. And don't hide in cities. ***Evar. ***
If you're being caught whilst you're running, then the problem is you're not running fast enough, or you suffer from some sort of latency problem. Both of those are not anything to do with a necromancer being OP. If that exact same player was playing a bard, cleric, DK, warrior, zerk or anything, what makes you think they wouldn't be chasing you at the same speed and catching you whilst you try to empower? :confused: At the very least, you could recall.
It's already been stated, you were caught WITH YOUR PANTS DOWN. With a monk, there is no reason why you shouldn't be in an empowerment for nearly 100% of the time, outside of combat.
This isn't intended as a ****wave because again, I'm not a good PKer. However, I have -never- been caught not empowered, because I keep a track of my surroundings and my empowerment, and try not to let my empowerment drop below 10 hours if I'm in downtime. I've been found meditating by the same necro, without sanctuary, but because I am in defensive/buddha ALL THE TIME I'm not expecting a fight I was able to flee immediately, rest, prep up, return, and give him a good run for his money.
Dey you're treating bhudda stance like its a cure all.. its not. its very limitted. definately makes a difference.
also, if i can get away from a warrior after severely shooting myself in the foot, lagging myself while he is lagging me, but a necro can kill me before i flee from nothing but lag, as a caster class not designed to play the lag game, that is what would be considered broken. i made mistakes before the fight. yes. but i did exactly what i should of once it started- not lagging myself and running (or trying to). you shouldnt have to use consumables to even be on par with a class (from what i could tell for the brief moments before the laglock, kurv wasnt too buffed either)
(from what i could tell for the brief moments before the laglock
Wait, what? You know what, I'm ****ing done here.
you're treating bhudda stance like its a cure all.. its not. its very limitted. definately makes a difference.
also, if i can get away from a warrior after severely shooting myself in the foot, lagging myself while he is lagging me, but a necro can kill me before i flee from nothing but lag, as a caster class not designed to play the lag game, that is what would be considered broken. i made mistakes before the fight. yes. but i did exactly what i should of once it started- not lagging myself and running (or trying to). you shouldnt have to use consumables to even be on par with a class (from what i could tell for the brief moments before the laglock, kurv wasnt too buffed either)
You keep coming back to the laglock argument. IF YOU WERE IN DEFENSIVE YOU WOULD NOT BE LAGLOCKED!!!
Buddha is not a cure-all certaintly, it is limited. However, you can still put out more than enough damage, whilst resisting LAG and his SPELLS.
I'm out, people have tried to give advice but you keep coming back to the strengths of the necromancer rather than doing what we've all done in situations like this, swallowed our pride and realised we died because of our own mistakes.
Dey
And how do you have anats at 100 and not bother to master defenses?
And don't hide in cities.
easy, anats are incredibly quick to train, for me at least. maybe i just get bad luck with training defenses. apparantly ive done something to piss off the badies on my mild-mannered, hardly talks to anyone monk.. enough for them to hunt me by name, spamming tells trying to get info on where i go. which makes challenges to practice a no-no. so.. off to fight mobs that dont die and cant hit me.. just takes forever. anats you can do easily by solo ranking. i solo ranked til my 30s, in which i had a pretty good set of anat scores. longer fights = more anats (since you learn anats faster than skills, its only a matter of time before the anats are so much farther ahead)
its not that im not bothering to. i will log on when there are all but 2 other people on, and lose sleep, just to train my skills. it just takes that long.
and also, the entire reason i was in xym when my empowerment ran out was cause i was turning in a clan quest, not that it has any real impact on that "fight" at all.
im done. its just me being pissed cause its already been said by an imm that necros are broken at the moment, and yet he is still allowed to go around (not an attack at kurv's player, by the way) and freely PK.
hopefully i'll cool down in the week im gone.
close this, please?
MCD, in that situation you would have been killed in the exact same way even if they were not "broken".
[edit] Does anyone even remember Kurv's early days? I do. He was either still in the low ranks or syndi or he wasn't in there at all. Had three Drstams and was fighting Valadar (decked nexus elder vampire). I thought, "Oh look, this necro is about to suffer". Then the next thing I see is Valadar naked. That was before the "fix" of the necros' zombies too.
There has been pleny of advice about your specific log - whether you take it or not is up to you. Bear in mind some of the people giving advice are quite strong PK'rs and do know what they are talking about.
I'll give you a way to look at the necro class that might help - they are one of the MOST scary classes when they are fully prep'd. Perhaps only a vampires in the depths of the night would come close to the offensive power a necro wields at the height of their power.
Consider:
High damage afflictive spells - check
Five (sometimes more) charmies that can hurt you - check
Nasty mals - check
Dispel magic - check
HIGHLY offensive and HIGHLY scary when on the attack
On the other side of that coin is:
Low base hp (second lowest of all classes) - check
Takes time to prepare (ie get zombies) - check
Takes a long time to fully train - check
One defense: parry - check
Parry like they are holding a rubber stick (esp illithid) - check
Most common variant (illithid) has a vulnerablility - check
Protection can always be used vs class - check
Now, I have experience both playing and beating necro's at lvl 50. I haven't had a pinnacled monk mind you, but I can share some insight on to how I fight them (this is not the ONLY way but it will yield sucess):
Necro's have almost zero melee defense (wait until you get one dirted...), lower hp than an equally eq'd anything but bmage. They do not do well running. In fact - they SUCK at playing an attrition game because they must be on the offense. Pure and simple.
In almost all cases I played a defensive game I lost - and I lost hard. With this in mind when I see a necro and I know we're going to tango I simply:
FORGET ABOUT DEFENSE!!!
That's right - go find you sanctuary, protection, armor, sheild, stoneskin and break out the Holy Sceptre of Necro Beating. Put on every, single offensive thing you can and BRING THE RAIN!!! Sure, it takes having a pair and needing to know sometimes you WILL die. If you're moderate its not exactly the penalty it used to be though. Other times you're going to tear that necro a new one and he's going to be left wondering - WTF just happened.
Finally, once that necro is on the run GET ON HIS CASE!!! Charge, murder whatever - stick the screws to him. If he gets away GO AND KILL HIS ZOMBIES!!! In fact (perhaps not as useful as a monk) make sure you are holding non-rare zombie vuln weapons so when the necro makes like a tree you can rip his zombies to shreds in record time. Then GET SOME REST and hunt him down. You know what zombies he had - start by checking there. Then check the next best zombies. My necro's never had such a hard time as when they got a beating, lost zombies and the guy went and patrolled the four best zombies I could get. If you find the necro fighting a mob for a zombie he's in a LOT of trouble. He'll have to run (because he's going to get his @$$ kicked fighting a mob and you) and the mob will track him. In fact, you can camp the mob and hope he comes back.
Finally, if you don't have these you need to get them (in this order):
Detect invis
Sanctuary
Fly
Protection evil
Armor
Shield
Stoneskin
Flesh armor
Bless/berzerk/frenzy
Detect magic
Haste (good luck, its hard to get but great if you have it)
You watch and see how much less the necro hurts you when you have these. In fact, watch and see how much less ANYONE hurts you with these up. I've played a lot of berserkers - and I generally utilised all of these. For a zerk its a matter of leveling the playing field. For other classes its just one advantage stacked on top of another.
I haven't have a monk over lvl 30 so take this for what its worth: Dragon is nice but I wouldn't bet on the phantom dragon in a vs necro battle. Also, an illithid has no weapons to disarm. Monkey for LOTS of attacks would make sense or crane (if high anat) to lag him. You'll need to test both and see what works for you. I have no idea how to play a defensive anything let alone a monk so you'll have to listen to the other guys on that.
The best thing you can do is log, post (even on prayer ask for advice, PM me or other players) and eliminate your mistakes one at a time. Getting rolled is part of learning how to roll others. Much like everyone wants to get to heaven but nobody wants to die...
L-A
Wow.
I fought Kurvikhel a few times when he had three travens. Sure, he hurt ALOT. But it wasn't half as bad as you are making out. You can do a number of things to increase your chance against bashes as well (ie, have them miss, or lessen their effect).
In that log, you didn't even have detect invis up.
Sorry, but just because of that, I consider the rest null and void. The fight only lasted 4 rounds. I have often had mobs lag me for four rounds
In regards to Layabouts comments about vamps equalling damage output, I don't think so? Vamps won't do any more damage then a warrior.
I eat Kurvikhel for breakfast with an agnostic cleric.
what what
i made mistakes before the fight. yes. but i did exactly what i should of once it started
You seem to think that because you did what you should've done once the fight started (namely, typing "flee"), that you should've gotten away - despite the huge mistakes you made before the fight. That is not the way combat in this game works, especially not for the class you were playing. Preparation is huge for everyone, but for a monk preparation is EVERYTHING.
You prepped wrong, and because of it you died. It's that simple. Had a giant enlarged warrior/zerk or an enlarged DK of any race + charmy caught you in the same situation, I'm willing to bet you'd have died just as quickly. Hell, another monk who was prepped for you would've done it too.
An invoker would've probably killed you even faster (though, granted, you would've had time to get A flee in - the spamming of 4 flees would've held you in place long enough for him to follow and finish you).
Defenses not mastered.
Sure necros might need some tweaking (and I'm sure the Imms are working on it), but I would hardly use this log as the basis for it.
the zombies do 99% of the work, he has to cast maybe 2-3 times to kill most people ... hell a simle cone of force and watch the zombies go will do it if your not COMPLETELY decked and COMPLETELY prepared.
I'm going to be blunt. As long as sanctuary is on, you don't have to be completely decked.
I suck the big one most days when it comes to PK. I don't get beat up half as bad as you guys seem to be.
I'm going to be blunt. As long as sanctuary is on, you don't have to be completely decked.
I suck the big one most days when it comes to PK. I don't get beat up half as bad as you guys seem to be.
im sure your cabal is probably full of people who help you or something, because the cabal im in people dont do d*ck for anyone else. everytime i ask for any kind of help i get "im busy", with exception to the cabal imm who actually takes the time to atleast talk to me about stuff. so yea, 9/10 times im not wearing a single lvl 50 item when i die.
im sure your cabal is probably full of people who help you or something' date=' because the cabal im in people dont do d*ck for anyone else. everytime i ask for any kind of help i get "im busy", with exception to the cabal imm who actually takes the time to atleast talk to me about stuff. so yea, 9/10 times im not wearing a single lvl 50 item when i die.[/quote']
ROFLMAO! I haven't been caballed in since 2.0! HAHAHAHA!
the zombies do 99% of the work' date=' he has to cast maybe 2-3 times to kill most people ... hell a simle cone of force and watch the zombies go will do it if your not COMPLETELY decked and COMPLETELY prepared.[/quote']
You have never played a necromancer. This statement is wrong on so many levels.
My last character got chased numerous times by Kurv while I was still pre-50 - despite him managing to actually attack me several times, I never once died. Why? Because I was ready for the attack, as defensive as I could be for a class without protective shield, and that preparation kept me alive long enough to get out of the fight and start running again - despite him having a 5 rank advantage.
You want to learn how to kill a necro? Play one, watch others as they kill you, log it, and figure out how they did it.
I agree with L-A.
-Trick
thats just the first time i've seen anything 1 rounded...
i've even 3 rounded people with my feral ranger, but dayum 1 rounded? whew i was in like complete shock lol.
Dude... One rounders happen a lot and not just with Necro's. I 1 rounded a halfling ranger once with an ogre warrior. Two words. Gladiator and polearm.