Observations

After spending about two weeks playing FL, ranking 3 characters over 30 and one to 50, I would like to offer some observations and suggestions that may increase the overall experience of new and old players.

Equipment Balance

Since two of my characters have the ability to identify items, I have noticed some of the original ideas about equipment have been lost. Typically, if you look at older equipment, you were forced to choose a route to go. If hit/dam is high, AC and saves were low. If AC and saves high, hit/dam low..etc etc. It should be near impossible to have both high saves and a high hit/dam.

Lag Lock

I have fought countless battles where lag lock plays into the overall outcome of the bout. Though this was the case ages ago, lagging was designed to be a tool and not an end all be all of fighting styles. Only some minor changes have been made that are what I consider to be rediculous (and I cannot explain them without divulging game and code mechanics), but I think players in general have just become better at making the most out of skills since 2.0. Revisiting the mechanics of lag would alleviate some frustrations countless "newbie" 50's are having. It would also force some of the veterans, me included, to use a wider range of skills in our arsenal. I have always wondered if somehow a lag type could prevent the flee but allow SOME skills to be used.

New Areas and Items

Over the past few years I see little change in the overall experience I have from levels 1 - 45. Even some small new zones, off current paths and not hidden down long roads, would help in the overall experience in ranking your character. It may also be of benefit to remove or revamp those zones NO ONE spends time in. A new MOB here and some new equipment there makes all the difference.

Ranking to 50

I only bring this up because I have seen a number of posts explaining how difficult this is due to 50's trolling. Personally I see NO ISSUE here. Getting to 50 is cake compared to how difficult it was in the early stages of FL.

Uncabaled 50's

This has always been a tough subject. At pinnacle we are force to join a cabal to even compete with others in our PK range. True some can still kill consistantly being uncaballed, but they ARE at a distinct disadvantage. I am running about 50/50 sadly enough. Perhaps allow a certain set of skills or abilities for uncaballed characters at 50. The ability to join a cabal should be limited to the elite of FL. I do understand a low population of players works against that concept.

Overall Class Balancing

After the implementors believe the equipment is at a level plateau, it is the perfect time to revisit the balance of each class and the availability of races within those classes. The original concept was that any class (except healers) should be able to kill any other class aside from the one nemesis that they have. That is with each class decked in above average equipment. Viri, Crypt, I and countless others spent hours upon hours testing how classes fight each other. Some skills were strengthened while others were toned down. In the end we had a good balance of classes. I can honestly say Viri was a successful killer with almost every class available in the game. It always came down to player skill and their overall understanding of their class strengths and limitations.

Immortal Involvement

Throughout 1.0 and even in our late stages with AR, Immortals were very invovled in the day to day RP plots. Though i do see immortals on quite often, in two weeks I have not had one interaction with any of them aside from approving my description. Thinking back to my early mudding days, having an immortal involved in RP made me like these games. Having the immortal leaders of two cabals face off against each other in the center of town was amazingly funny and exciting. Some of the more addicted players today are because of that interaction.

Assassinate

Last but not least, my favorite thing to complain about since even before FL began. We need to lose the 1 hit kills. Be it assassinate or any other. It stops people in general from hanging around any length of time to RP. Instead we spend our time talking at a distance over tells. What a waste. Even having some zones where "one hit kills" cannot happen would help. I would like to sit in central square with a group discussing faith and/or preaching to the masses. As of now, that cannot happen.

That's all I have. I didn't edit the post, so expect some of it to be wordy or lacking actual substance. This is all just the opinion of an Old mudder who prefers text games over his 3 80's on WoW. and this is FREE...hah!

While I agree with a lot of what you have to say, this is something I would like to respond to.

Assassinate

Last but not least, my favorite thing to complain about since even before FL began. We need to lose the 1 hit kills. Be it assassinate or any other. It stops people in general from hanging around any length of time to RP. Instead we spend our time talking at a distance over tells. What a waste. Even having some zones where "one hit kills" cannot happen would help. I would like to sit in central square with a group discussing faith and/or preaching to the masses. As of now, that cannot happen.

I have seen no assassinations since I have come back. In my entire FL career, I have been killed by assassins a few times sure, but I think I have only been assassinated once if ever. Even if assassinate was removed from the game today, you still would almost never see people congregating in cities in large numbers. People simply do not trust other people to not attack them the second their guard is down, so they constantly hide in out of the way spots, choosing to do their rp through tells in order to protect their shinys. Plus there would still be thieves. And archers shooting from outside town. Aside from having no-pk areas, something I am and always will be completly against, you will never see large numbers of people in pk range of each other congregating in one spot. Not until a measure of mutual in game respect is established among the player base and RP becomes as treasured as PK anyways. Good luck with that.

While I agree with a lot of what you have to say, this is something I would like to respond to.

I have seen no assassinations since I have come back. In my entire FL career, I have been killed by assassins a few times sure, but I think I have only been assassinated once if ever. Even if assassinate was removed from the game today, you still would almost never see people congregating in cities in large numbers. People simply do not trust other people to not attack them the second their guard is down, so they constantly hide in out of the way spots, choosing to do their rp through tells in order to protect their shinys. Plus there would still be thieves. And archers shooting from outside town. Aside from having no-pk areas, something I am and always will be completly against, you will never see large numbers of people in pk range of each other congregating in one spot. Not until a measure of mutual in game respect is established among the player base and RP becomes as treasured as PK anyways. Good luck with that.

Disagree... the #1 reason I will not sit in a city is assassinate. IF that was removed, I would not mind sitting there at all provided no thieves are black jacking me.

Disagree... the #1 reason I will not sit in a city is assassinate. IF that was removed' date=' I would not mind sitting there at all provided no thieves are black jacking me.[/quote']

So what you are saying is that if assassinate was removed you still wouldn't ever sit in a town?

As a side note, I do think assassinate has gotten too easy.

EDIT: Also don't forget that bards can knockout and steal as well.

So what you are saying is that if assassinate was removed you still wouldn't ever sit in a town?

As a side note, I do think assassinate has gotten too easy.

No I would.. I'd be more willing to face the possiblity of black jack then the one hit kill loose everything route.

The #1 reason I will not sit in a city is assassinate.

Thieves come and go, but hardly ever will you be killed without a chance.

I know i can live a Backstab, and just recall.

I know i can notice when i am being robed.

I know i have a high chance of seeing the Trap.

I know that i cannot know if a decent ninja is studding me until he misses his assassination or he kills me. Then it's to late.

I also have not been assassinated in ages. But i do not hang in cities at pinnacle.

At 30th i stand at the Central Square, confident that if something happens i can take action to change my fate and not die.

I do not fear Ninjas most of the time. As i know i just need to not be in a place where he can study me without my knoledge.

Inside a city he can do it.

This limits my character by forcing me to not be inside a city.

Perhaps we should have larger parks inside cities.

i say.. make the central commons a place you cant be attacked in. just 3 rooms on the map (one for each city) or possibly even 2 (rheydin and val miran)

Assassinate kills rp and player enjoyment from being able to rp in town forcing players to avoid cities and lose out on the community aspect fl is supposed to have. Haha its the reason I never read all those tomes and stories the heralds scribe about in there library which is really just all there haredwork a waste. Ninja additions that actually require skill to use whist adding to the classes versatility and replayability can certainly take the place of such a counterproductive (in a pk sense as well since the goal of it is to avoid fighting) one hit kill.

Immortal involvement i'm sure is a priority on things to do. But its not always when something can be done about it at this time.

Also in agreement to new mobs with a new piece of eq does wonders to areas hardly visited. The same can be said for the implementation a new shop with some cool scroll that outlaws usually wouldn't be able to get or even a simple fountain and food in those far away places.

What if you could buy immunity from strikes from the shadows in one of the major cities for x (24 hrs?) amount of hours from Tribunal. When the time expires, you have to spend the same x amount of hours within the same city before you can buy immunity again. Just a thought.

Oh, and btw aulian and mya. A well played thief who needs to re-eq is one of the most annoying things in this game.

What if you could buy immunity from strikes from the shadows in one of the major cities for x (24 hrs?) amount of hours from Tribunal. When the time expires, you have to spend the same x amount of hours within the same city before you can buy immunity again. Just a thought.

Oh, and btw aulian and mya. A well played thief who needs to re-eq is one of the most annoying things in this game.

Pk protection is not a good idea amongst non scribers/heralds. Plus it would frustrate the ninja who wishes to utilize that ability to no end, even though its a ability that's on there skill list. Which begs the question why give us ninjas this skill when we can't even use it? And additionally not have adequate compensation? Though in your example you state that the victim has to stay in the town unprotected for that very same # of hours they paid protection for? That would defeat the purpose of this idea and lead to an easy kill once the ninja found out you were previously protected.

IRT to your thief comment i'm sure many of us vets would much rather deal with the theft of a thief than an assassinating ninja.

I think ninjas have already been compensated for the loss of assassinate with the addition of their selections, they just never lost assassinate.

They don't need it. They can melee very well already.

What if you could buy immunity from strikes from the shadows in one of the major cities for x (24 hrs?) amount of hours from Tribunal. When the time expires, you have to spend the same x amount of hours within the same city before you can buy immunity again. Just a thought.

Oh, and btw aulian and mya. A well played thief who needs to re-eq is one of the most annoying things in this game.

Oh yeha I know that, but he isnt going to kill me and full loot me

I think ninjas have already been compensated for the loss of assassinate with the addition of their selections, they just never lost assassinate.

They don't need it. They can melee very well already.

Yet there are some combos ninjas won't be able to outmelee no matter how hard they try. Comparing this to your zerk argument. Other combos can melee and do far better if they were something else instead.

Assassinate is part of the game. End of story.

The rest of your suggestions are on the money.

It's not assassinate that keeps me out of cities, it is hide that keeps me out of cities. I couldn't care less about assassinate.

Thumbs up.

Also, I vote against this devolving into yet another assassinate thread, losing sight of the other really REALLY good points that OB has made.

Equipment Balance

Since two of my characters have the ability to identify items, I have noticed some of the original ideas about equipment have been lost. Typically, if you look at older equipment, you were forced to choose a route to go. If hit/dam is high, AC and saves were low. If AC and saves high, hit/dam low..etc etc. It should be near impossible to have both high saves and a high hit/dam.

Interesting observation Old_Man. It was to my understanding that during the switch from 1.0 to 2.0 Virigoth went through and changed most of the game's equipment specifically because it was very possible to have a high save vs spell and hitroll/damroll. Matter of fact I think it may have been even more possible back then. I am not sure how old you are talking about when you say "older equipment", but I can assure you that we have not changed a lot of the equipment around from 2.0 - specifically we have not added saves or hitroll to equipment. Though an equipment re-balancing is in order for three reasons:

1. The gap is wide.

2. It will level the playing field for equipment knowledge.

3. It will shake things up.

Thus, this is in the works, but I am sure you can appreciate the time such a project will take - especially while working on other projects concurrently.

Lag Lock

I have fought countless battles where lag lock plays into the overall outcome of the bout. Though this was the case ages ago, lagging was designed to be a tool and not an end all be all of fighting styles. Only some minor changes have been made that are what I consider to be rediculous (and I cannot explain them without divulging game and code mechanics), but I think players in general have just become better at making the most out of skills since 2.0. Revisiting the mechanics of lag would alleviate some frustrations countless "newbie" 50's are having. It would also force some of the veterans, me included, to use a wider range of skills in our arsenal. I have always wondered if somehow a lag type could prevent the flee but allow SOME skills to be used.

This idea has been floated before, and I think that it would not be a good idea against mages - as protection from lag figures into preparation. If as a mage or a communer you do not have your proper protections, you deserve death. Intra-melee combat, this idea could work.

New Areas and Items

Over the past few years I see little change in the overall experience I have from levels 1 - 45. Even some small new zones, off current paths and not hidden down long roads, would help in the overall experience in ranking your character. It may also be of benefit to remove or revamp those zones NO ONE spends time in. A new MOB here and some new equipment there makes all the difference.

Indeed.

Ranking to 50

I only bring this up because I have seen a number of posts explaining how difficult this is due to 50's trolling. Personally I see NO ISSUE here. Getting to 50 is cake compared to how difficult it was in the early stages of FL.

Indeed.

Uncabaled 50's

This has always been a tough subject. At pinnacle we are force to join a cabal to even compete with others in our PK range. True some can still kill consistently being uncaballed, but they ARE at a distinct disadvantage. I am running about 50/50 sadly enough. Perhaps allow a certain set of skills or abilities for uncaballed characters at 50. The ability to join a cabal should be limited to the elite of FL. I do understand a low population of players works against that concept.

I am, and have always been a fan of uncaballed terrors. The concept of cabals has somehow switched from being the cherry on top of the cake, to being the cake itself. Some create characters with the intention of maximizing said character within a cabal. If they do not get into the cabal, they feel as if their character is wasted and of no use. I believe it is a poor approach to the system. Cabals are not a given, nor should not being in one somehow make your experience meaningless. Do not roll your character with a cabal planned out. Join the sect that most enhances your characters roleplay despite of advantages or disadvantages.

Overall Class Balancing

After the implementors believe the equipment is at a level plateau, it is the perfect time to revisit the balance of each class and the availability of races within those classes. The original concept was that any class (except healers) should be able to kill any other class aside from the one nemesis that they have. That is with each class decked in above average equipment. Viri, Crypt, I and countless others spent hours upon hours testing how classes fight each other. Some skills were strengthened while others were toned down. In the end we had a good balance of classes. I can honestly say Viri was a successful killer with almost every class available in the game. It always came down to player skill and their overall understanding of their class strengths and limitations.

I am not sure if 1.0 was more balanced or less balanced. It was certainly a different experience - and since there are a plethora of other threads that examine the difference I wont bother here. Needless to say that I remember certain classes, rangers for one, being severely underequipped against many other classes. Still, balancing is an ongoing task, as one piece of new equipment/skill/bug fix can throw the balance completely off-center.

Immortal Involvement

Throughout 1.0 and even in our late stages with AR, Immortals were very invovled in the day to day RP plots. Though i do see immortals on quite often, in two weeks I have not had one interaction with any of them aside from approving my description. Thinking back to my early mudding days, having an immortal involved in RP made me like these games. Having the immortal leaders of two cabals face off against each other in the center of town was amazingly funny and exciting. Some of the more addicted players today are because of that interaction.

Indeed.

Assassinate

Last but not least, my favorite thing to complain about since even before FL began. We need to lose the 1 hit kills. Be it assassinate or any other. It stops people in general from hanging around any length of time to RP. Instead we spend our time talking at a distance over tells. What a waste. Even having some zones where "one hit kills" cannot happen would help. I would like to sit in central square with a group discussing faith and/or preaching to the masses. As of now, that cannot happen.

I honestly do not believe removing assassinate will bring a comfort to sitting in any square for an extended period without an Immortal present guaranteeing safety. Remove assassinate and people will fear being blackjacked and having their items stolen or pried. Remove that, and people will fear not having sanctuary ready for an incoming attacker. It comes down to trust. No one trusts each other - and with reason - paranoia does keep you alive. FL is very Hobbesian in nature: bellum omnium contra omnes - the war of all against all - and this is why the only thing that has ever allowed a greater sense of peace is the presence of a Leviathan: Justice or Tribunal. Without a strong Justice or Tribunal presence, no one feels comfortable to sit within the squares. Think about the eras of Dedric, Alome, Bertrist, Shaw, Ralos, Martineius. These were characters that provided you with a greater sense of protection when you were in the cities. These are the eras where you felt somewhat comfortable sitting within the square, because no one wanted to risk being captured.

That's all I have. I didn't edit the post, so expect some of it to be wordy or lacking actual substance. This is all just the opinion of an Old mudder who prefers text games over his 3 80's on WoW. and this is FREE...hah!

We Appreciate your thoughts old timer. If you feel like going into depth with those code mechanics you were talking about, post on the prayer forum and we can continue that aspect there.

reply

Interesting observation Old_Man. It was to my understanding that during the switch from 1.0 to 2.0 Virigoth went through and changed most of the game's equipment specifically because it was very possible to have a high save vs spell and hitroll/damroll. Matter of fact I think it may have been even more possible back then. I am not sure how old you are talking about when you say "older equipment", but I can assure you that we have not changed a lot of the equipment around from 2.0 - specifically we have not added saves or hitroll to equipment. Though an equipment re-balancing is in order for three reasons:

1. The gap is wide.

2. It will level the playing field for equipment knowledge.

3. It will shake things up.

Thus, this is in the works, but I am sure you can appreciate the time such a project will take - especially while working on other projects concurrently.

Revamping the equipment is a HUGE undertaking. I very much understand both the complexity and time investment.

This idea has been floated before, and I think that it would not be a good idea against mages - as protection from lag figures into preparation. If as a mage or a communer you do not have your proper protections, you deserve death. Intra-melee combat, this idea could work.

Then consider that some classes have unsavable ways to remove lag protection. Some of those "ways" also lag through protection as well. Perhaps revisting both the lag mechanics and skills to remove lag protection wouldn't hurt.

I am, and have always been a fan of uncaballed terrors. The concept of cabals has somehow switched from being the cherry on top of the cake, to being the cake itself. Some create characters with the intention of maximizing said character within a cabal. If they do not get into the cabal, they feel as if their character is wasted and of no use. I believe it is a poor approach to the system. Cabals are not a given, nor should not being in one somehow make your experience meaningless. Do not roll your character with a cabal planned out. Join the sect that most enhances your characters roleplay despite of advantages or disadvantages.

It seems you are very in tune with why people join cabals now. I would love to see a standard set of skills one can attain at pinnacle IF uncaballed. Perhaps even make it a conscious choice; IE if you choose to be "uncaballed" you CANNOT apply to one. I believe an abundance of thought from more experience players/implementors would be needed to execute this with perfection.

I am not sure if 1.0 was more balanced or less balanced. It was certainly a different experience - and since there are a plethora of other threads that examine the difference I wont bother here. Needless to say that I remember certain classes, rangers for one, being severely underequipped against many other classes. Still, balancing is an ongoing task, as one piece of new equipment/skill/bug fix can throw the balance completely off-center.

I know of a number of rangers in 1.0 who destroyed the competition. It was very balanaced to the point I believe any class could take any other class out. The one imbalance was some skills from conclave. Gorath and Zenizen abused those to the point that Viri removed them from the game for 2.0. I also belive Harishin had 7 or 8 charmies? Something rediculous that was also fixed.

I honestly do not believe removing assassinate will bring a comfort to sitting in any square for an extended period without an Immortal present guaranteeing safety. Remove assassinate and people will fear being blackjacked and having their items stolen or pried. Remove that, and people will fear not having sanctuary ready for an incoming attacker. It comes down to trust. No one trusts each other - and with reason - paranoia does keep you alive. FL is very Hobbesian in nature: bellum omnium contra omnes - the war of all against all - and this is why the only thing that has ever allowed a greater sense of peace is the presence of a Leviathan: Justice or Tribunal. Without a strong Justice or Tribunal presence, no one feels comfortable to sit within the squares. Think about the eras of Dedric, Alome, Bertrist, Shaw, Ralos, Martineius. These were characters that provided you with a greater sense of protection when you were in the cities. These are the eras where you felt somewhat comfortable sitting within the square, because no one wanted to risk being captured.

Both in 1.0 FL and AR, there were always people standing around town talking. Thieves were rarely blackjacking because while stealing they would be quickly killed by others in town. Assassinate was in play back then, but it was very different. A ninja would need to attempt assassinate a number of times before a successful one would hit since it was a % chance with no studying involved. Thus giving someone a chance to lag or faerie fire them. The ninja in a sense put themselves at extreme risk UNLESS using the other skills in their arsenal. Having any skills with a perfect (or even close) hit rate removes the fun out of the fight. It also makes using the skill not even a slight adrenaline rush. As for thieves, it has almost always been impossible to kill a warrior/berz with > 1200 hp.

About assassinations; Removing them is harsh, but I do believe that it should take longer time to get a full study. If it did, the ninja would have to choose between an incredible studying effort, or a decent chance of failure. Rogues have gained a lot by the change that they don't show up in the who list when hidden, so they could pay a bit back.

Assassinate was in play back then' date=' but it was very different. A ninja would need to attempt assassinate a number of times before a successful one would hit since it was a % chance with no studying involved.[/quote']

Am I misunderstanding you? You had to study to assassinate in 1.0 as I remember (you could try it without study, but the chances were low).