I think maybe if these could destroy burnproof weapons, even at a reduced chance it would give berserkers more of a shot against melees.
I have a hard time seeing how "burnproof" means indestructable. That weapon had to be forged somehow, something has to be strong enough to mold it, and whatever is strong enough to create it is strong enough to destory it.
Not really. A regular steel blade is just iron, and charcoal. You could not destroy steel with either of those. Burnproof means indestructable, not highly resistant to damage. I do not think zerks should be able to destroy anything, your too new to realize how hard some burnproof weapons are to get. And alot of weapons are burnproof to cover the weapon destroying abilities.
Agreed. I think the burnproofed items kind of balance out the cleaving skills.
just think its kind of rediculous that warriors and monks can disarm you nomatter what with certain selections, blademasters can mimic the weapons you are using if they dont know it, etc etc.
Its bad enough that when you rage you loose a defense, at that point your effectively a caster who can have their "spells" parried.
Granted im still learning alot of the classes, but burnproof seems kinda "OP" especially on something like a blademaster with bloodvow and all their stances.
Granted im still learning alot of the classes' date=' but burnproof seems kinda "OP" especially on something like a blademaster with bloodvow and all their stances.[/quote']
I cannot say I completely disagree with you there. However, spending over an hour to gain an item to loose it five minutes afterwards in a single cleave is also... more than annoying.
I cannot say I completely disagree with you there. However' date=' spending over an hour to gain an item to loose it five minutes afterwards in a single cleave is also... more than annoying.[/quote']
sure, its annoying, but i think you can count the number of people on one hand that would disagree when i say berserkers need SOMETHING against melees. ( and im not saying i know what this is, but i've noticed berzerkers have to be super crafty and quick on their feet to defeat a lazy melee.)
take a warrior and fight a berserker without a burnproof it will be close but warrior will typically win by about 20% hp now give the warrior a burnproof , that 20% becomes 50%. ( hypothetical, but if you need proof just look at the logs.)
now that i think about it, why not just not lose dodge when raged? that makes them better against melee and not any better against casters.
Not many people can play a zerk as easily as a warrior. I do not know what you people are thinking when you think a zerk should beat a warrior. it is a WARrior. What do you think they do in a melee battle? Zerks can easily wreck rogues, mages, and hybrids. They suffer vs high output melee because of the way rage works. Also, if you notice, ALOT of the pk logs posted are where the person who you are viewing as lost, not just zerks. Rarely does it show a zerk winning.
following that logic shouldnt warriors only excel againts melee? I've seen some warrior destoy everything a zerker can and still be on top of melee.
To be honest, it is mostly all just about weapon selection, versus their weapon selection. Then you throw some skills into the mix to beef up your abilities versus them trying to rack up abilities against you, and someone loses.
Edit: That is to say the weapon selection is for melees. Whereas the second sentence applies to all.
I think maybe if these could destroy burnproof weapons, even at a reduced chance it would give berserkers more of a shot against melees.
I have a hard time seeing how "burnproof" means indestructable. That weapon had to be forged somehow, something has to be strong enough to mold it, and whatever is strong enough to create it is strong enough to destory it.
The thing is that the "burnproof" weapons are often balanced so that they are NOT the best weapons of choice by any means, but people will forgoe other bonuses for the simple fact that hte weapon is "burnproof".
To remove this would infact change a lot of the way people dress, there would be no point in grabbing that item if there are many others readily available that will do the same job with other bonuses or the bonus that "burnproof" allows.
EDIT: Also, one would have to remember that every class needs a "bane." Just for the simple reason that then they can be beaten although one would have to admit that some cabal and race/class combinations destroy any chance of a bane. Especially some of the reaver skills.
although one would have to admit that some cabal and race/class combinations destroy any chance of a bane. Especially some of the reaver skills.
yea i see your point... post edited
I say we stop talking about cabal skills if we want this thread to stay lock free.
A thief has a MUCH better chance of killing a Warrior than a Berserker does.
Berserkers do NOT have that great of an advantage over rogues or caster/communer.
I agree they DO need something. A lot of something. Emp, your the only one defending berserkers. Roll one. Dominate. I have yet to see any. (save a Mino Zerk, but that is ONLY because of charge. Which I think needs to be looked at in it's own right.)
Killing a Warrior (or any other melee) in a few easy steps as a Mino Zerk:
(The hardest part) Find the warrior. Don't challenge the warrior though, this is a sneak attack.
Trail the warrior, until you see the warrior becomes stationary if they are not already so. They all must stop sometime least they run out of moves or the player gets a finger cramp.
Staying out of the zone, prep yourself:
Now spam directions to where the warrior is and lead with charge.
Follow up the horned charge with bodyslams. With the preperations, you will probably get a complete lag lock. Most likely if the warrior hasn't noticed you, they won't be sanced = Dead Warrior.
IMHO it is a mistake to play a Zerk like a true melee, think and play a Zerk like a ninja and you will do well.
Haha. Is that your idea of playing a melee like a ninja? That is how all Warriors fight.
Now, charging a warrior is a BAAAAD idea. Counter can be nasty.
Mino zerks ARE the strongest Zerk race, but for the wrong reasons. They only do well if they blind their foe and charge like crazy.
Speaking of these tactics, notice how not once was haymaker or headbutt utilized. It shows, in a glaringly obvious way, how unreliable these skills are.
Furthermore, no matter how much of a jump you get on the warrior if he is wielding a staff that isn't cleaved you are screwd.
Forgot about counter, well add dirt before the charge.
You are more likely to get a laglock with bodyslam as opposed to bash. Thats why the tactic I mentioned works better for Zerks as opposed to Warriors.
As to why I ascribed Zerks to be like Ninjas, is that like a ninja, most of the time you can't win if you go toe to toe with anyone of similar quality gear. You need to wait for them to let their guard down and pull of an assassinate or the Zerk version bodyslam lag lock.
Furthermore, no matter how much of a jump you get on the warrior if he is wielding a staff that isn't cleaved you are screwd.
So you're claiming that an unsanced warrior with a staff can beat a sanced Mino zerk even while laglocked? If thats the case, then Zerks are pretty screwed.
So you're claiming that an unsanced warrior with a staff can beat a sanced Mino zerk even while laglocked? If thats the case' date=' then Zerks are pretty screwed.[/quote']
Yes. I am claiming that.
That is exactly the case actually.
Wanna charge? I got counter for you.
Dirt? Well I will dirt you back. Charge me now?
I can use weapons which you can't. I have more attacks than you. I have a bow which you cannot block.
You throw a successful haymaker and laglock me? Well I don't care really, I don't need sanc to beat you.
That is how thigs stand with warrior vs zerker. Even if the warrior is under-equiped and with less skill.
Not to mention, I have blind fighting and you don't.
I have pugil!
I also have two more evades than you.
Alright, you want me to prove non mino zerks are viable, and just take more to play than a warrior. Fine. Zerk is rolled and leveling. You wanna pick the cabal too?