What's the point of having poison up while you're blackjacked?
Er...it wakes you.
Ninja tone-up
I'm not trying to change it based on what I want. The REAL problem is' date=' they're not good enough at being hidden assassins, in my opinion. [/quote']
Not good enough?! With enough patience, you can take down ANYONE. Clavrus took two hours just watching Maleki use Savant Gates, and took him down. I took three full days catching *peeks * of Shaw coming out of his cabal skill to finally pop him. Patience is paramount.
Roll a half-elf ninja, take the scout perk, pick eagle eye, (or vice versa, can't remember) get a hitroll of 70 and watch the assassinates fly. Join Syndi for even more fun. That's what I did.
Want a warrior? Roll a warrior, not a ninja. Want a class that can kill anyone, with a little time and patience? Roll a ninja, and play it like it was designed for.
I 100% back what IUTBS just said.
Ninjas are exactly what they are meant to be right now. The only exception to this are the two or three people that have successfully taken a very specific race, class, ninjitsu, cabal, and lots of rare eq, and turned the class into a melee tank. Other than that, ninjas are just fine, with scarce exception (the things I'm talking about, I've already discussed with the IMMs).
The hardest obstacle to get over when playing a rogue, IMO, is sometimes having the patience to wait for the perfect opportunity, and not let that lack of patience push you into making a move you regret afterwards. So many times would I see an opponent and then prepare to attack immediately, very much like a warrior - when instead, I should have been following, watching, waiting, and not compromising myself should they happen to leave the immediate area and away from my 'hide zone'. Sometimes, you can go all-out - other times, you need to wait for the perfect opportunity to present itself.
Also, whilst ninjas do have a limited melee capability - it is exactly that - a limited melee capability. Whilst there are situations and exceptions where rogues can go toe-to-toe with people and win, their class design simply doesn't lend itself to it. IMO The melee capability exists to support the core ninja skill, assassinating, not necesarily to be a seperate 'path'. The skillset isn't one where you need think "I need to choose to be an 'assassin' or 'melee' ninja" but rather think "I can melee OR assassinate depending on my foe".
Dey
And what's so utterly terrible about splitting up the class to induce variety and replayability? It did wonders for rangers and brought alot of players to the game, remember how many rangers we had running around? Anyway alot of people don't like playing the assassin type whilst others don't enjoy playing the downgraded melee type (which I believe has become less and less effective over the years). I think there should be as many classes with different approaches as possible.
+1 for IUTBS.
Ninja's aren't divided inot 'melee' and 'assassinate' They do both - as they can't win all battle using one or the other.
I knew Tetesunai at his peak and he said he'd often look at someone's eq (esp melee classes) before he engaged. If he had better eq and could get the jump he'd kill them then and there. He wasn't slow about it. Conversely, if there was no way that he was going to win a melee match, he'd sit and study you.
Just because you have some choices to make that makes a certain way easier does not mean that you only kill that way.
L-A
I knew Tetesunai at his peak and he said he'd often look at someone's eq (esp melee classes) before he engaged. If he had better eq and could get the jump he'd kill them then and there. He wasn't slow about it. Conversely, if there was no way that he was going to win a melee match, he'd sit and study you.
L-A
Solid decision making. I like that way of thinking.
And what's so utterly terrible about splitting up the class to induce variety and replayability? It did wonders for rangers and brought alot of players to the game' date=' remember how many rangers we had running around? Anyway alot of people don't like playing the assassin type whilst others don't enjoy playing the downgraded melee type (which I believe has become less and less effective over the years). I think there should be as many classes with different approaches as possible.[/quote']
I agree, in that variety is the spice of life. I'm not saying that allowing seperate routes within a class is a bad thing, I'm saying that the ninja doesn't need a 'tone-up'. They function exactly as intended - giving the class routes and variety is a seperate topic. The argument that the melee side of ninjas needs a tone up because they can't melee as well as others is like saying we need to tone up the melee of a cleric because going pure melee with those is too hard. Melee plays a significant part in both classes, but it is not the end of it - you need to be able to use both parts of the class, unless you're up to the challenge.
Dey
I knew Tetesunai at his peak and he said he'd often look at someone's eq (esp melee classes) before he engaged. If he had better eq and could get the jump he'd kill them then and there. He wasn't slow about it. Conversely, if there was no way that he was going to win a melee match, he'd sit and study you.
L-A
Here! Here! I see ninjas and thieves jumping someone immediately. It makes very little sense unless you KNOW what they have and what they are about. Why not take advantage of your HIDING to check things out? Crap, a smart thief can relieve you of many things before you feel the WAP! on the head. No vials? No brews? Ah, yes, recipe for screwed. 
That's what I did as a thief. Probably three quarters of the things I stole, I stole while they were awake. Sleepytime is pry time. Hehe. I was only caught maybe twice ever... Steal works on awake folks like you wouldn't believe.