Class Rank Titles

Would be nice to see a revamp in some of them.

Paladin being called a Bow Bearer with no bow skills is Awkward.

Not a pressing matter, just a thought.

Bow bearer probably means the paladin carries the bow for someone else, sort of like what a squire would do.

Bow bearer probably means the paladin carries the bow for someone else' date=' sort of like what a squire would do.[/quote']

1)The officers in most close attendance on the monarch's person were, in war, his charioteer, his stool-bearer, his bow-bearer, and his quiver-bearer; in peace, his parasol-bearer, and his fan bearer, who was also privileged to carry what has been termed "the royal pocket-handkerchief."

1. There was an officer to the king, described as a "bow bearer", in Ancient Persia.

3)1605 - Sir Robert Swift of Streetthorpe (Edenthorpe) was appointed bow-bearer to the Royal Chase of Hatfield by James I.[1] A local tradition in that area states that the many yew trees of the region were planted as a result, to provide wood for bows.

4)In Old English law, a bow bearer was an under-officer of the forest who looked after all manner of trespass to vert or venison, and who attached, or caused to be attached, the offenders, in the next court of attachment.

Paladin Pupil

Scullery Man

Squire Candidate

Shield Bearer

Sword Bearer

Bow Bearer

Standard Bearer

Horseman

Squire Initiate

Squire

See the logical progression ?

It is fine.

Would be nice to see a revamp in some of them.

Why don't we do away with level titles all together. It would add more to RP and would make PK just as challenging, if not more.

By removing level titles, people wouldn't be able to use the OOC knowledge of the Who list to determine what the class, or what level the character was.

This would open up another door of RP for forming groups and perhaps a bit of RP before a pkill.

Grey

Idea to Remove all Rank Titles

You know, people ask for that sort of nonsense now, but even still, you're in the minority.

If that change actually happened... there would be an overwhelming majority of people whining, complaining, and bitching. Not only that, you would have people who actually enjoy the game and just want something to complain about, so they were begging for the change, switch sides and bitch about it.

Major changes like that would affect the entire system of the MUD in a very negative way.

Greyanhk are you in some sort of Crusade to make the game "Different" ?

Greyanhk are you in some sort of Crusade to make the game "Different" ?

I'm been thinking about becoming an immortal and to do so, it looks like I'm going to have to design my own mud. I love a lot of aspects about Forsaken, but I find some inconsistencies that I would change. To be an RP enforced mud, it would just make sense to me, that minimizing OOC knowledge would help promote that aspect.

Removing the level titles is a simple way to spur RP and eliminate some OOC knowledge. I don't feel I should know your class if I have never met you.

If that change actually happened... there would be an overwhelming majority of people whining, complaining, and bitching. Not only that, you would have people who actually enjoy the game and just want something to complain about, so they were begging for the change, switch sides and bitch about it.

I have always been of the mindset that; since there is not one person in this game who pays my bills, feeds my children, or sleeps in my bed, I give less than a damn about what they think. To say a change shouldn't go in because it would create whining or bitching is not good enough for me.

I also believe that the staff of this fine game does not care at all if I agree with, or disagree with a change they want to make. It is their game and they have graciously allowed me to play it. If they want the snow to be orange, then it will be, no matter what I say or do. If I don't like it, I can go play a thousand other muds. So, once again, whining and complaining don't add up as reasons for not implementing something.

I have read and heard it many times. If you want a change, suggest it, and have a decent discussion. Show the pro's and con's of an idea. Let them weigh all the aspects and determine the validity and implementation aspects.

Please though, spare me the inconvenient, the pbase will whine, no one would like that, or it is too hard to do, stuff. Come up with a legitimate reason for not wanting the change.

Right now, I can't see why that wouldn't be beneficial. The only ones who would complain are those who base their strategies off knowing information that you did not get through RP. Why couldn't you ask a herald to find out what weaknesses, or what profession so-and-so is? Or ask a syndicate. There are many ways around the change if you are creative.

So, once again, I propose these things because I wonder what others think. And it is possible for someone to change my mind. Pali did it in our last discussion.

Grey

I gave you a reason.

This is not solely an RP enforced MUD. It is also a PK enforced MUD. To keep PK enjoyable, while maintaining a standard of RP, there are level titles. Just like, for the same reason, there are level restrictions on PK.

Just like' date=' for the same reason, there are level restrictions on PK.[/quote']

Though sometimes I really wish my pinn could lay the smack down on some level 20 idiot talking ****.

Though sometimes I really wish my pinn could lay the smack down on some level 20 idiot talking ****.

Ask and you MIGHT be given

We've removed level restrictions when some lowbie talked too much **** to a 50 before. Imagine their surprise.

In a rp sense, someone who just learned which part is the handle and which is the blade of a weapon is insulting a famous fighter who'd probably lay him out with one punch. I don't see many people walking up to the next streetgang member with a gun in hand, talking smack to him. About the same situation.

As to the change, I see some rp advantages but also understand the wish to be able to prepare somewhat for a pk fight. Let us continue this discussion in a civilized mature manner.

This is not solely an RP enforced MUD. It is also a PK enforced MUD. To keep PK enjoyable, while maintaining a standard of RP, there are level titles.

So, the sole reason PK is enjoyable is that you can see level titles?

Am I to believe that PK will no longer be enjoyable for anyone if we remove the level titles?

Or is it that this will no longer be a PK enforced mud if we remove the level titles.

I am more apt to believe that it is a newbie-friendly thing, not a PKill or RP reason. Even as a newbie-friendly instance, I think level titles are just like quest info. They impart too much information.

I would find it much scarier to know [PK] John is nearby and not know what level he is, then to see [PK] John the Flower Picker is nearby and know I have three levels on him, so I can go take him out with my practice sword.

I think PKill would, in fact, become more enjoyable. And I still believe that taking level titles out would increase RP, not decrease it. It may also cause others to work harder at trying to gain a title, thus their play would improve, which would make the mud better. I think we are all for better.

Grey

Let us continue this discussion in a civilized mature manner.

If you feel I am not being civilized, please let me know. I tend to abuse the sarcasm at times and it may come across other than intended. No matter what I say or the manner in which it is taken, I hold no ill toward anyone. I can easily rephrase my points to appear less sarcastic and direct.

Grey

I've stated my opinion on the matter, and you're really beating around the bush trying to disagree with it.

Look, this game is two things:

1. An RP enforced MUD.

2. A PK enforced MUD.

Just like with Celerity's suggestion that we completely remove numbers from the game (such as health and experience), this is a change that would be a detriment to the PK aspect of the MUD.

No, level titles do not solely comprise or control the PK of this MUD. However, they do serve several functions:

1. Allowing level 50 players to act classy, and not go around killing lowbies.

2. Allow newbies to get a feel for the game. Imagine the pain a group of newbies would experience if three invokers or three necromancers ended up in a group because they didn't know the other two were the same class. They would never get anywhere.

3. Titles themselves can serve as an RP function. I don't know about you, but being a Grand Master of Seasons or an Executioner of the Order is a pretty sweet RP to me.

In short, by removing titles from the game you are really doing no service to RP, and you are, in fact, cutting away a huge part of the game.

Look, I understand the desire for realism, and the removal of OOC knowledge from the game. But realistically, if we there weren't such a thing as metagame thinking, most games would not be fun.

1. Titles themselves can serve as an RP function. I don't know about you' date=' but being a Grand Master of Seasons or an Executioner of the Order is a pretty sweet RP to me.[/quote']

This is why a number of my chars will refer to anyone they don't personally know by their title. Because your title is what you are, what you are known as to the world as a whole. You're not some guy named Jack, you're Jack the Angel of Arcana. This is a title your guild has bestowed upon you for all the hard work you've done and progress you've made since you joined. It's an honor to have it... be proud of it.

'It not only helps when forming groups, but also knowing who can group with who. How much fun would it be as a good cleric to go join a neutral warrior and realize his third is a DK. Might fighting insue? maybe. Might you be left to go solo or try and find some other group that you may have rejected for this one? very likely.

Just like with Celerity's suggestion that we completely remove numbers from the game (such as health and experience), this is a change that would be a detriment to the PK aspect of the MUD.

In your opinion (and perhaps in all honesty, the vast majority's opinion) that is. I would not realistically expect a change like this to be implemented on the grounds that it is a huge change to the way the PK aspect of the MUD plays. I personally really like the idea of not knowing what another's class is without either attacking them blindly to find out or asking others. I think it adds a little bit of spice to things in the PK arena, and helps add to roleplay (people talking to find out their own classes AND levels - it also means characters can lie about both for PK advantage).

This wouldn't be as groundshaking as many would expect, because word will spread on what classes the 50's and powerful lowbies are like wildfire.

This may not be newbie friendly, and isn't a change I would suggest for this MUD because I feel it would really put a lot of people off, and it really is changing the way the PK system has been in place for so long. But I do like the idea. It could be expanded further so that people can see the titles of those in their own guild and clan for example. So a Thief in Hope might see:

[25 Human Thi] [hope V] Deykari the Thiefy thing
[Avian] Evangelion
[Drow] Bubbles the Big Thief
[Storm] [Hope T] Smasher the Berserker

1. Allowing level 50 players to act classy, and not go around killing lowbies.

Again, I don't PERSONALLY see this as a reason, because I wholeheartedly believe in the whole "if they're in your PK range they're fair game" thing. To me, unclassy playing is ganging/full-looting when it's not neccessary/multi-killing when it's not neccessary, and OOC smack-talking.

This change would act as a double-edged sword:

1. It would mean that people who wanted to fight only 50s may accidently end up fighting pre-50's.

2. It would mean that people who normally prey on pre-50's will be in for plenty of unpleasant surprises.

It also removes the need for people talking trash about how player X sucks for attacking him when he was level 42, because hey, nobody knows.

1. Allow newbies to get a feel for the game. Imagine the pain a group of newbies would experience if three invokers or three necromancers ended up in a group because they didn't know the other two were the same class. They would never get anywhere.

Very valid point. It would mean that a lot more roleplay has to go on prior to forming a group, however. A plus for roleplaying, but a negative for those wanting to get into the thick of hunting with little hassle. It would also mean that less experienced PKer's are going to find it a lot harder when they don't know what people they are up against, and I am very much against any changes that are making things HARDER for newbies to get into the game, and not EASIER.

1. Titles themselves can serve as an RP function. I don't know about you, but being a Grand Master of Seasons or an Executioner of the Order is a pretty sweet RP to me.

Another good point. The only counter to this I can think of is that all people can see custom titles granted by the Imms - if a character has done something to be known by something distinct and unique, then you would expect everyone to know about them.

Like I said, I wouldn't want to see this change in this MUD because it appeals (I'm guessing) only to a minority, and ultimately I see it as beneficial only to people who have played here for a little while or who can pick up PK quickly. But I do like the idea.

Dey

The main effect I see this proposed change having on gameplay is that it slows things down. PK-wise, players might have to ask around to learn information about their opponent. They would probably go into fights with a bit more caution. Or, if they weren't so keen on the element of surprise, they might even use the consider command.

As far as finding a group, again, it makes it slower. I know I'm not the only player that doesn't dig it when I see "Jack tells you 'Hunt?'" I try to have conversations when forming a group; I'll ask if potential groupmates if they're good with a sword, if they know spells that can help, where they plan to travel, etc. Normally people aren't in such a hurry that they won't play along.

I don't really see it making the mud much less newbie-friendly. I've had newer players try to form a three-mage lowbie group with my characters before, not realizing how ineffective we'd be.

The standard right now is that PCs in FL are famous heros. Upon acceptance into a guild, they have gained more fame than most citizens, and their name and title become known throughout the land. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. It really comes down to whether or not we want to slow down the game a bit by removing one of the mechanics that aids gameplay.

I think that it would make things more difficult to simply go out and pk so and so because you know from his title that he is of an alignment opposing yours. Or even that because you know a certain title belongs to a certain class, for example a paladin, and you are a dark-knight, alot of times I find that the player will initiate combat without a word. While it may be fun to play the dark, mysterious type, it gets old, quickly. Not to mention, not every character is going to have that type of personality. I think that this is quite an interesting idea, although simply removing all titles from anyone who does not have a custom title granted by an Imm may not be the answer either. I do like the possibility to increase the amount of RP that goes on between characters, especially those that oppose each other, it gives you a chance to flush out your character and develop your reasoning behind attacking so and so. Not just who can get the best pk record. Remember, in the description of this game, it is an RP enforced mud first, as I think it should be, pk should be second. While there may be serial killers in the world, they still do not kill without a reason, sometimes it is as simple as because they were not polite or something to that affect, but few simply kill for the joy of it. And even then, they choose their victims, not randomly walking up to person A and killing them for the heck of it.