Life insurance

The opposing POV that I think is coming out here is not "Damn man, I just killed you and I didn't get your phat lewt, that kill was for nothing".

Here's how I see things:

LI should be available in situations where you are the underdog. Outnumbered in Cabal Warfare? LI is a big help in keeping you in the action. That is the only reason I like LI - if there was an alternative solution to being outnumbered in Cabal warfare, I'd prefer it.

LI shouldn't exist to keep the big dogs on top of their game. IMO, except in 'unfair' situations such as 2v1, 3v1, etc. (and even then, I would like to see something replace LI so that losing armor is a very real possibility), there should be a fear of losing your equipment in every PK encounter. Everything is as normal for the players that are of a low skill to above average skill - they die more often, they don't have LI up all the time, there's a lot of re-equipping going on throughout their lives.

But what about the elite players? The ones that feel comfortable with fighting a large portion of the player base? They don't need LI up ALL the time - they can just pop it up when they are fighting certain foes in particular that may take them down. The players who have PK records of 100, 150+ kills to 10-20 deaths. These are the players that rarely die, and more often than not, when they do, it's to another skilled player - meaning they likely had life insurance up.

Nobody is saying having LI up all the time is feasible. It's not. But if someone is killed, I strongly believe that their EQ should be up for grabs - whether you like it or not, this MUD is highly EQ orientated - you all know that. Why should the top players have the satisfaction of being able to keep their godly sets for long periods of time? Again, nobody is saying they're gonna keep it forever - sooner or later they're going to get with their pants down, killed, and looted - exactly as it should be. But there's no denying that LI is a double edged sword - it helps even things out in Cabal warfare (a little), but it helps players who are at the top of their game, stay there.

This is just my opinion, and my gripe with LI.

Why shouldn't a cabal help keep the "elite" player on top? Like you said, they will eventually be caught with their pants down. So whats the problem?

I also see LI as very necessary for Dark Knights. You know, I died with a level 6 weapon and by the time I got to my corpse it was down to level 0. That is crazy. If I had life-insurance I would not have lost everything. That to me, is more important than some uber eq I can easily get again from PK.

Argument: You are fighting 2v1 or 3v1 then you should loose your equipment.

Reaction: Soon as the odds sway, they will log off, and wait till they can log on when less numbers appear.

Consequence:

The big dogs will still stick around and tough it out.

There will be an increase in lowbie ooc.

There will be an increase in the OOC "Jump on and help me" sort of thing.

Cabal Wars will shrivel and only when you have the advantage will you stay around.

I dont mind fighting 3+ people if they expect it being done to them when I have the chance and numbers are on my side. But remove LI and I can guarentee you I would think long and hard if I was up against someone like Corinkorth and Unst at the same time, whether I stick around or not.

That's the whole point of numbers anyways. I ALWAYS think a bit about how I'm going to go about doing things when it becomes a numbers game. I usually try to at least retrieve if they take my standard and I've been able to hold off multiple opponents before so I figure if I can at least do that then whether I die or not just goes to show that I at least had the balls to do it.

I say in this thread too...

Remove LI, and make curent cabal gear Perma bind/no sac upon purchase.

I say in this thread too...

Remove LI, and make curent cabal gear Perma bind/no sac upon purchase.

Good fix,

Its only a few pieces but good enough to get you moving again.

And typically the pieces you want to lose the least. BUt then if there is no life insurance and you cant ever lose your cabal eq, what would be the point of gaining cp? I've often tried to figure that out with my chas. I often got up 12-18000 with covus and would just sit there trying to think of something useful to use them on. If you never had to purchase cabal eq a second time though then you would NEVER run out of cp for all the little things you need it for. That would do nothing but make cabal life too easy. Even without life insurance. Now aside for the LI problem with a Tribunal being the one to capture the person with LI, it's Very expensive. And if you use it even more so. I don't think there is much wrong with life insurance, but I would suggest One change.

Instead of costing 250 at purchase and 250 at death. What about 350 at purchase and no cost at death. That way you buy it and survive it's still expensive, so people that have 5-6k cp would really be draining themselves when they buy it and things die down until they're just sitting around doing nothing they would need it for.

If you ask me. There is nothing wrong with LI. Nothing at all. People die all the time and loose eq all the time. LI has been in effect for the longest time and no one has had a problem with it.

hehe, I agree..honestly Aulian. Though if a change could go in that let me keep my shiney cabal gear I would like that more then the current LI

Instead of costing 250 at purchase and 250 at death. What about 350 at purchase and no cost at death. That way you buy it and survive it's still expensive, so people that have 5-6k cp would really be draining themselves when they buy it and things die down until they're just sitting around doing nothing they would need it for.

This would only hurt the current "underdog" cabals more, since they have a significantly lowr gain.

I think LI hurts eq circulation, especially if that player hardly plays as is. now We've had Dumela, Triathix, Siavash, Atsul, Drayson all decked to the teeth and with enough cps to probably keep life insurance until condeath. With situations like this, its incredibly hard to even find a major globe around. Traveling to gear is usually a waste of time. The only reasons I'd like to see LI used for is against ninjas (and a certain psi path). Its incredibly cheap for them to study you while you're in the middle of cabal warfare. They can just sit outside most cabals and slowly study, and you are forced to defend/retrieve your standard putting you at high risk of assassinations. Hmm, a possible fix would maybe be to hard code it to where you can only buy LI if the odds are two (or more) to one with at least two enemies of a vendetta'd cabal about if you are alone. About the ninja fix, I suggest an overhaul to there skills, as they can be so much more varied. Assassinations is so cheap and proves nothing really. Not to make myself sound all powerful but I'm pretty sure I'd have no problems killing even the strongest of players just by staying outside of there cabal during cabal warfare, or waiting for them to fight someone else, or strangle flee and never initiate combat.

Here are my thoughts:

I barely use life-insurance even when I am decked. The only times I ever use it are if I am worried about my internet connection (which unfortunately has been a problem for me lately), or if my standard is gone and I know I'll be getting laglocked/ganged at an altar. Its not as if I'm expecting to die all the time. (that would be a pretty depressing attitude )

Let me say that I'm almost entirely neutral on the whole LI debate. However, I think the people that are well equipped are going to get well equipped again even if they do die.

Life insurance as far as I see it serves these purposes:

1. Makes it more fun since average players can afford to stay against very tough odds (and fighting against tough, but reasonable, odds is a ton of fun). This includes situations vs. numbers or else vs. an unevenly matched skill level.

2. Helps prevent "dead times" in which one cabal is basically completely deserted because none of their members have equipment to fight. I know this still happens sometimes (because people can't afford to use life-insurance all the time, which counters the argument people are making), but before LI was reinstated it was way worse.

Overall, even if people do keep their equipment, it doesn't really matter. Dumela and Byrsypherus were both decked for a long time and neither of their cabals was destroying the other. In fact, they were pretty evenly matched. Without LI, when one of them died they would have had a pretty decent rebuilding time. Lastly, it shouldn't be "Damn, I couldn't get this guy's equip, and that was all for nothing." Beating a decked player, especially if they are an Elder or Leader, should still be a prideful/fulfilling experience.

I think LI hurts eq circulation' date=' especially if that player hardly plays as is. now We've had Dumela, Triathix, Siavash, Atsul, Drayson all decked to the teeth and with enough cps to probably keep life insurance until condeath. With situations like this, its incredibly hard to even find a major globe around. Traveling to gear is usually a waste of time. The only reasons I'd like to see LI used for is against ninjas (and a certain psi path). Its incredibly cheap for them to study you while you're in the middle of cabal warfare. They can just sit outside most cabals and slowly study, and you are forced to defend/retrieve your standard putting you at high risk of assassinations. Hmm, a possible fix would maybe be to hard code it to where you can only buy LI if the odds are two (or more) to one with at least two enemies of a vendetta'd cabal about if you are alone. About the ninja fix, I suggest an overhaul to there skills, as they can be so much more varied. Assassinations is so cheap and proves nothing really. Not to make myself sound all powerful but I'm pretty sure I'd have no problems killing even the strongest of players just by staying outside of there cabal during cabal warfare, or waiting for them to fight someone else, or strangle flee and never initiate combat.[/quote']

I think you would have a lot more issues than you think. Using assassinate as a sole means of killing someone always was a slow process. Trying to assassinate a skilled player isn't the cake walk everyone makes it out to be. Many ninja's have tried to assassinate me - very few have ever suceeded (2 or 3?) That includes in cabal warfare.

Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with assassinate except the bitching that comes from players who were either too stupid to prevent it or simply out played. Mostly though, its the former.

I've been assassinate three times I think - and all of them were because my fault.

L-A

Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with assassinate except the bitching that comes from players who were either too stupid to prevent it or simply out played. Mostly though, its the former.

I've been assassinate three times I think - and all of them were because my fault.

L-A

I also have been assassinated probably only once my whole time here. To me this is largely due to the tactics I use to tell whether a ninja is within the lands, play very passively (gay) during fights and cabal warfare, or log off and on randomly. Though this is of little consequence. My opinions are coming directly from that of the ninja himself.

I think LI hurts eq circulation' date=' especially if that player hardly plays as is. now We've had Dumela, Triathix, Siavash, Atsul, Drayson all decked to the teeth and with enough cps to probably keep life insurance until condeath. With situations like this, its incredibly hard to even find a major globe around. Traveling to gear is usually a waste of time. The only reasons I'd like to see LI used for is against ninjas (and a certain psi path). Its incredibly cheap for them to study you while you're in the middle of cabal warfare. They can just sit outside most cabals and slowly study, and you are forced to defend/retrieve your standard putting you at high risk of assassinations. Hmm, a possible fix would maybe be to hard code it to where you can only buy LI if the odds are two (or more) to one with at least two enemies of a vendetta'd cabal about if you are alone. About the ninja fix, I suggest an overhaul to there skills, as they can be so much more varied. Assassinations is so cheap and proves nothing really. Not to make myself sound all powerful but I'm pretty sure I'd have no problems killing even the strongest of players just by staying outside of there cabal during cabal warfare, or waiting for them to fight someone else, or strangle flee and never initiate combat.[/quote']

Im with Calron on this, you would be suprised how often I DONT have LI..

Secondly, my eq is hardly hurting eq circulation, alot of what I have is either only one unique piece in the lands or its one of two unique pieces. That goes for alot of the other top players aswell. Having the ring of ultimate evil or the soulreavers fangs doesnt effect circulation. There only being ONE of that thing affects circulation And you have to remember to get those things WE were incredibly lucky. Clearing out Deso/discord and there being NOTHING is not fun. Its time consuming and a lot of work for NOTHING. Everyone has the equal opportunity to grab that stuff. WE dont have insider information about whats in and whats not. Everyone has the same chance. Luck of the draw really.

So if you actually looked at our sets you would probably realise that we have only a couple of pieces of eq that 'effect' the circulation of most rares. Eg: ring of accuracy ect.

You would actually be suprised just HOW much eq is out there. I have another pinn atm that is decked too. Soul tear the lot Although he will definately loose it in the next purge so look out for those fullplates/rings of accs/cloaks of shadow ect.

Here are my thoughts:

I barely use life-insurance even when I am decked. The only times I ever use it are if I am worried about my internet connection (which unfortunately has been a problem for me lately), or if my standard is gone and I know I'll be getting laglocked/ganged at an altar. Its not as if I'm expecting to die all the time. (that would be a pretty depressing attitude )

Let me say that I'm almost entirely neutral on the whole LI debate. However, I think the people that are well equipped are going to get well equipped again even if they do die.

Life insurance as far as I see it serves these purposes:

1. Makes it more fun since average players can afford to stay against very tough odds (and fighting against tough, but reasonable, odds is a ton of fun). This includes situations vs. numbers or else vs. an unevenly matched skill level.

2. Helps prevent "dead times" in which one cabal is basically completely deserted because none of their members have equipment to fight. I know this still happens sometimes (because people can't afford to use life-insurance all the time, which counters the argument people are making), but before LI was reinstated it was way worse.

Overall, even if people do keep their equipment, it doesn't really matter. Dumela and Byrsypherus were both decked for a long time and neither of their cabals was destroying the other. In fact, they were pretty evenly matched. Without LI, when one of them died they would have had a pretty decent rebuilding time. Lastly, it shouldn't be "Damn, I couldn't get this guy's equip, and that was all for nothing." Beating a decked player, especially if they are an Elder or Leader, should still be a prideful/fulfilling experience.

Alot of what you said was SPOT on. I have killed decked people and left their eq because of what Im wearing -even Byrs a couple of times

In fact, they were pretty evenly matched. Without LI, when one of them died they would have had a pretty decent rebuilding time.

To say the least. Having a bunch of shinies is fun, loosing them is not. Regaining them in the same lifetime? Close to impossible.

You would be surprised where you can and can't study people now. Not to mention a failed assassinate/strangle could possibly mean bye bye, like when I failed strangle on a fire giant warrior wearing teeth and crap gear, there was a log of that hah. That was sad. Forgot to mention the LI has a few bugs too and the people who have had it happen know what I'm talking about.

To say the least. Having a bunch of shinies is fun' date=' loosing them is not. Regaining them in the same lifetime? Close to impossible.[/quote']

Losing them isn't fun, but it's part and parcel of the MUD IMO - I believe that there should only be two instances where you can keep EQ:

1. When you're good/lucky enough to simply not die for and be looted. Or when you do die, you get to your EQ first.

2. If you're outnumbered in Cabal warfare.

With no feasible way (at least as far as I am aware) to code anything to make it that you're allowed to use LI when more enemy Caballers are on but not when an equal/less amount are on, then I disagree with LI. I can find positives for having it, more than just the "It helps when you're outnumbered argument" but for me, the negatives outweight the positives.

Just a personal opinion, my reasons are in this thread elsewhere, and I do understand and accept the opposing opinions.

It wouldn't be hard to make it so that you can only purchase it when there are a certain number of enemies on. You could even go so far as to make it wear off if the number drops below the threshold and return a portion of the cost based on how much duration has elapsed.

I can't really afford the LI anyway. Seems like I draw even when I play due to the fact that I have my armies out constantly trying to retake a little portion of my world.

If I used LI three times, I would not have enough to support the little things you need to compete.

So its a big luxury for me at least when I do go and buy LI...

never used it, dont plan to. seems like it would take the fun out of the whole thing.

never used it' date=' dont plan to. seems like it would take the fun out of the whole thing.[/quote']

Cool, didn't expect anyone to do the same thing as me.