Tribunal?

Dead horses don't fight back.

I love 'em.

To be quite honest and blunt, for the most part, old school royalty was nonfunctional. When IMM's had to step in and threaten to slay people for spitting/abusing/handing crap to Royals on a regular basis, something is fundamentally wrong with the system. When the system works properly, it shouldn't require constant IMM threats, as well as slays. When cabal warfare completely dies because of lack of interaction from ONE cabal, something is wrong with the system. Here are some examples.

1. People who couldn't PK flocked to the Royals. It became, in every sense, the cabal people who couldn't PK went to...and more for a certain skill they once received, than anything else. Hence, the crapload of healers (especially elf) in Val Miran, vis a vis everything else. And no, before you mention Bartog, Bartog couldn't PK for crap. Both Lay-About and Despiser, I recall watching then, used him as a decked reeuip numerous times, on naked/tainted equipment. Galvatar was the only one who even came close in the entire history of 2.0 royals, but he was Heroed fairly early on. Virigoth, as I recall, was not happy about this at all; he wanted Royals to be a viable PK cabal as well, as all cabals were supposed to be, with the exception of Herald. Virtually none of those that joined were interested in PK; they were interested in AVOIDING PK, which was not the spirit in which the Royal cabal was created.

2. Despite the fact that they couldn't, and, for the most part, weren't interested in PK, the original army warfare layout of the cities meant that cities could affect army warfare...even if there were ZERO members of said subcabal existing. Not enough people were interested in royals, frankly, to justify letting them have control over army passage. Weeks or months at a time, army warfare would be stopped, because a city, usually Rheydin, would become impassable.

3. Royals had no real teeth. Old school exile, big deal. Yawn in the Royal faces and continue.

I could continue, but the fact is, the old royal system had way, way too many problems. That's why Virigoth scrapped the entire thing.

Now, simply put, everything you could have RP'd originally, you can still RP now. What's the difference? You no longer get a certain pk-nullifying skill.

Which is, I suspect, the real reason for most the 'bring back the old royals' chants.

Old royal system isn't coming back. Work with the new one. Virigoth scrapped the old one, for reasons the current IMMstaff agrees with; reasons that are arguably even more pronounced now. The new one is what you have.

Its not the cabalskill that made me love old school royals, it was the rp.

It was awesome. I think the problem with Tribunal is that they're the only empire. Empires aren't fun alone! You gotta have a couple of em to battle for control! That's why I think it would be cool if knights conquered Valmiran, and Nexus conqered Mirhuvor(or two other cabals taking two of the cities), knight fits PERFECTLY because of their prophecy to take over the royal houses and well...nexus is power hungry.

Then you'd have three empires...fighting it out...it would be cool, I think.

REDMARKERED: No discussion of old cabal skills.

What battles? Almost none of the royals PK'd! There WERE no friggin' battles. Half the time, there were no friggin' royals

And no, the 'land taking' doesn't really count. FL is a primarily PVP MUD, not PVE like WoW and the like, in terms of both PK and RP. Honestly, I don't even like the army system, in its current incarnation...but that's a completely different topic of discussion.

The avenue of a -structured- 'city vs city' RP is gone, yes, but other avenues have opened up as well. Imperial roleplaying; resistance roleplaying. Separatist roleplay. Etc., etc. One door closes, another door opens. Roll with it.

Royals would be awesome to bring back.

Now is NOT the time to do it. The level of overall playerbase RP required for it doesn't exist at the moment. Maybe in the future I'd agree they should return, but not now.

Also' date=' nothing is stopping someone from RPing their own deal of "royalty" from other cities. You just aren't under the umbrella of the Tribunal government.[/quote']

He's right. You don't need the imms to code new cabals/clans for you to RP a "royal".

I really, really should have specified that I wanted the return of the and flags, not the cabals themselves. To be a Noble, you could be in a Cabal, to be a Royal you can only be apart of militia (or nothing at all) and then you would be on your own, really. Tribunal would act as guards for them, technically, but would still do their own thing.

Royals add a nice dimension that I think the game needs - not the cabal crap, but just the flags to dignify those who RPed hard and worked to get that sort of thing. Apps and RP beyond all others would be needed, obviously, and not just anyone can pick it.

What I think we could use is 2 Nobles/per city (Val, Mir, and Rheydin). 2 Royal over Tribunal and 2 Nobles in service of Tribunal. Those who first establish the line can then have a tome on their family history and all people who come afterwards will need to clear the lastname with the prior player and an IMM (or something). I am a huge fan of lineages and their impact on the game.

Anyhow, just my thoughts.

Tribunal already has Royalty. The Council Subcabal simulates Royalty with Lords/Dames and titles. Scratch the Royal idea, it's already there.

Now Nobles, on the other hand, really don't have anything to do with royal blood. They would just be, like, business owners, bank owners; super rich people with political influence. The Empire would protect them for various reasons. Growth, protecting the people, or even corruption, if you wanted to (define that stuff in game). They can come from any of the cities... Marak, Shasarazade, Rheydin, whatever. They'd merit tomes, just like any other reward, through RPing like mad.

Think of a scenario where two nobles get into a feud over, like, materials or something silly like that. Noble house rivalry at it's finest, with Tribunals always trying to break up the fighting (or aid a side, assuming corruption is involved). Ever read/seen Dune?

Now Nobles, on the other hand, really don't have anything to do with royal blood. They would just be, like, business owners, bank owners; super rich people with political influence. The Empire would protect them for various reasons. Growth, protecting the people, or even corruption, if you wanted to (define that stuff in game). They can come from any of the cities... Marak, Shasarazade, Rheydin, whatever. They'd merit tomes, just like any other reward, through RPing like mad.

Sounds a bit like korthian. And I don't think he needs a flag.

Eh, I suppose it is because I am from the old school and don't care for the Tribunal set-up. That might be what it is.

Tribunal already has Royalty. The Council Subcabal simulates Royalty with Lords/Dames and titles. Scratch the Royal idea, it's already there.

Now Nobles, on the other hand, really don't have anything to do with royal blood. They would just be, like, business owners, bank owners; super rich people with political influence. The Empire would protect them for various reasons. Growth, protecting the people, or even corruption, if you wanted to (define that stuff in game). They can come from any of the cities... Marak, Shasarazade, Rheydin, whatever. They'd merit tomes, just like any other reward, through RPing like mad.

Think of a scenario where two nobles get into a feud over, like, materials or something silly like that. Noble house rivalry at it's finest, with Tribunals always trying to break up the fighting (or aid a side, assuming corruption is involved). Ever read/seen Dune?

I think what has been missed by most of the Tribunal Council members I've seen is the type of in-fighting these different cities should create.

When Martineius was around, you could sense an undercurrent of some of that, but because Marti was feared, nothing much came from it. From the conversations I've been privy to, that was the closest it's come though.

Basically, yes, to answer an earlier question, they did take Napoleon's armies away. I think the French Revolution is a perfect example of the current set-up. Monarchies essentially disappeared and a parliamentary style government sprung up almost overnight.

No one really has dug deep enough to exhaust the incredible RP potential of Tribunal. And Raargant perfectly described the Royal cabals...they wished to avoid PK and that wasn't the intent. I don't think predecessors like Dunlith, Hersanie (sp), or Murat and others went around avoiding PK for the sake of avoiding it. Anyone who questions their RP needs to remember that back then IMMs hand selected Royals. There were quite a few people in 2.0 who had stellar RP and were Royals. The problem was that it became a standard haven for non-PKers which left them as nothing more than eq farms in cabal warfare.

Also, cities had a distinct advantage in army warfare so claiming their prowess based on armies and holding land is a fallacy.

I named my malform at level 49 thinks to royals. So for malforms sake, bring back the royals.

And Raargant perfectly described the Royal cabals...they wished to avoid PK and that wasn't the intent. I don't think predecessors like Dunlith' date=' Hersanie (sp), or Murat and others went around avoiding PK for the sake of avoiding it. Anyone who questions their RP needs to remember that back then IMMs hand selected Royals.[/quote']

Hehe... I went around avoiding PK... but then, I did that before I became a royal. And then they wouldn't let me quit.

I want to avoid PK...

Make a healer, go around with maybe one or two pieces of common eq, don't attack anything (I didn't fight undeads/vamps even, wouldn't come with on Winter/Dess/Gear trips, etc.), stay uncaballed, and just be nice to everybody. Helps if you've got a fun little habit that make people find having you around and alive fun. Like poking.

dude im sorry man, but everyone hated that poking thing dude. seriously, just drop it

dude im sorry man' date=' but everyone hated that poking thing dude. seriously, just drop it[/quote']

Aw, be nice, Elfdud... I like it because it is part of who his character was and Pali was always so friendly and sweet.

I briefly scanned through the description of a Tribunal, but haven't decided if I want to apply or not... I don't really see myself playing a Justice like char. I guess I just liked pretending I was a princess is what it comes down to...is that so wrong?

For Pali's sake: POKE!

Make a healer...

Well, because of the simple fact that I am playing that healer, least someone must figure out least some reason to kill me. If nothing else, just because I happen to be there. It's the nature of the game. Hurrah enforced PK.

And I still have pinned healer there (maybe? haven't checked it for eons for instance), and I say that they're boring as hell. Especially after change to their nice spell... mutter Now I'd actually need to find those undeads.

Hmmh... Maybe that's enuf whining for now?

dude im sorry man' date=' but everyone hated that poking thing dude. seriously, just drop it[/quote']

grins Some hated, some loved, some just found it kinda amusing at times. To be honest, I don't really care either way.

And Leth: pokes back ^_~

the game has changed, people. as much as i would love for it to be 1.0 again, it can't. being a Royal from that time period, the RP was very very good. those Royals 'blended' RP and PK together to further their 'goal'. i was a drow bmg, who if anyone remembered, attacked lots. and then i took on a Captain, Trigomonis. then i hired a drow ninja for a personal assassin (gave him something like 800,000 gold to change his hometown. loved the petty cash drawer of a city, heh). but then in 2.0, with the changes to Royalty (it was a vote, not a IMM given priviledge) people flocked to it to avoid PK. they were, in fact, reducing their available RP by negating half the game. some people are fine doing that, i am not. i don't know what happened in 3.0 that is making people to the 'bring back the royalty of old' chant, but my guess is it's NOT going to happen. so live with it.

if the problem is a game issue, it will get fixed.

if the problem is YOUR issue, then you're SOL.