Skills, mana use, and movement

Why do skills use mana? Seems odd that they would operate on the same source as spells.

The idea: Make skills use movement and not mana.

In this idea, it is somewhat critical to think of movement in terms of a stat more exactly resembling "Stamina" or the physical counterpart to magic resource.

This would be applied to all skills that use physical energy. It is somewhat exhausting to bash or bodyslam someone over and over.

Further along this line of though and the idea of stamina is regular combat. Each round of combat might serve well to drain a small amount of movement(stamina). Something like 1 or 2 points per round.

Now, put modifiers on the stat that make melee races more unique. For instance, with high DEX, you manage to perform combat as well as certain skills using less energy. Conversely, if you have high strength, you would perform them with a large exertion of strength, as well as at a high cost to your stamina. Elf warrior with advantages? Yes, I know, it would be something to see.

I post the very rough idea of this. The exact systems involved, and the balancing with it remain in my mind. Needless to say that it would make room for strong abilities, but to use them overtly carries with it the risk of exhausting yourself (as should be the idea with a fighter).

Essentially the same pool of energy that propels your feet will propel your arms, and your body.

Mana, as far as this game is concerned, is not so much a resource as it is a factor of concentration. So the skills that require mana, such as acupuncture, require concentration, combined with physical effort. In other words, physical effort alone isn't enough, thus mental effort must be used as well. You'll notice that most skills that have a mana cost, will also have a physical cost as well, be it from a detrimental effect, or added lag time, or both.

Mana' date=' as far as this game is concerned, is not so much a resource as it is a factor of concentration. So the skills that require mana, such as acupuncture, require concentration, combined with physical effort. In other words, physical effort alone isn't enough, thus mental effort must be used as well. You'll notice that most skills that have a mana cost, will also have a physical cost as well, be it from a detrimental effect, or added lag time, or both.[/quote']

Pretty much how I view it. Also, you'd have to completely rebalance mages/communers vs melees, as the changes wouldn't drain the mages moves and he'd be able to run much farther.

I agree with this idea fundamentally, but I oppose it on several counts. First, it would take a large amount of coding, and 3.0 coding(not building) is slow to the point of non-existance.

Under this system, there would be even less reason to play a high str race. We already see enough of the halfling melee types. If we do this, we would have to make calculations for at least the following things:

Move cost for executed skills.

Move cost for combat rounds (including attacks and costs for defenses).

Move cost based on size.

Move cost based on str/dex.

Movement drain for mals

Movement gain per tick

Movement gain per level

Movement gain per class (seeya later mages)

Power of skills affected by movement

Movement cost based on armor weight/max weight.

You also have to keep in mind that if high str races use more 'vigor', then they must also do a relative amount of more damage. A halfling bash might take 1/5 the moves, but should then do 1/5 the damage (assuming equal conversion).

High str races (ogre/giant/mino) are rather unpopular for straight melee. Giants have every vuln that ogres do except maledictive(storms and fires have an additional vuln). They also don't have the HP to survive those vulns--considering equal skill of players, I'd place giants near the bottom of the totem pole (with half-elves and gnomes, and I LOVE giants). Ogres get romped by any communer and any decent mage. Fighter's fighter. Minotaurs have less potential as melees, but can survive a little longer against communers/mages. But if you want to do a 3.0 melee game, then you really should choose blademasters or rangers(there is a reason they are both so popular). Warriors and zerks had their prime in 1.0, took a beating in 2.0, and have never recovered in 3.0.

I love the idea, but this is the wrong time, and the wrong mud.

Thats why its an 'idea.' Its an idea to change exactly the concept that skills are free to use, and spells are not. It is to ask why should the focus and energy required to bash someone be free?

Yes, it would require some rebalancing, but there are many ways to do this easily and effectively.

I will admit I give this idea about a 0.00001% chance of even being considered. I post it for anyone who likes to hear ideas, and perhaps only that much.

I have coded these things into FL's base code (close enough for comparison) and I will say this at least...it made melee classes very, very interesting to play and gave a great variety of playibility among the different races available for said melee classes.

I put in several skills and effects that emphasizes the usage of stamina(and ways to crush it out of your victims). It all worked very well, and as I say, gave much more style and variety to classes that only have melee in their bag of tricks.

Edit: In response to Celerity's comments about Warriors/Zerks in 3.0, I will say that this would easily be a way to reclaim them. Granted, you would have to create some new skills that properly showcase the statistic. Needless to say, in practical application, a well played halfling and a well played giant each did very well. They did, however, have drastically different play styles. This is, in essence, what I was looking to promote. Both played to their strengths were viable and relatively the same overall strength but in different areas. It does not mean there is even less reason to play high strength...rather it means there are different reasons to play high strength. The coding itself does not take much time with a little focus. Many things affected stamina use, but it is simple to add these mods in. I believe the whole system took only a few days to implement, if I recall. Balancing is the more time consuming portion.

Warriors and zerks had their prime in 1.0, took a beating in 2.0, and have never recovered in 3.0.

I love the idea, but this is the wrong time, and the wrong mud.

I haven't played a warrior in 1.0 or 2.0, but I have in 3.0, I think warriors are lacking quite a bit in terms of skill choices with thier weapons (weapon mastery gives you one, maybe two perks) I had a great deal of success with my warrior, when I was decked, when I was anything but decked, I got ate alive. But there is always Rompkei to look at as an example, its still possible to own as a warrior, or any class really, just need the right eq. All this is just my opinion heh.

Although it would make other lesser-played warrior races more interesting to play in comparison to other warrior races, those races still don't actually become "better" in comparison to other warriors (in terms of combat itself) unless it comes to long-haul fights.

The main problem I see is the fact that you are sharing combat skills with moves, having them bundled up together. Even with a substantially bigger pool of moves/stamina to use, imagine fighting a shaman, case in point. Shaman have enfeeble and plague at their disposal. Say goodbye to any moves regeneration, because those moves burn fast. A warrior would be sitting duck for any shaman because they wouldn't be able to use any of their skills. It would drastically change the way warriors play, especially on those fight-to-the-wire battles where you're all heavily wounded and weakened, when a caster can run out of moves and still cast, but a warrior runs out and can't do anything.

Not sure how much MV you'd propose for each skills, but when you take a high-str race using their combat skills, with a small drain for each attack or round of combat, it soon mounts up. Over a long drawn fight, if a communer runs out of mana, they have their moves to be able to run. A melee class will hamper their own escaping over a long haul fight.

I like the prospect but I think it just hampers pure melees further, and seems like a lot of work to change a system that works now anyway. Unless they were given some sort of advantage to balance it out, which I think you may have mentioned in your first post but I couldn't tell.

EDIT: Just saw your edit about new/changed skills to showcase the system, so it definately makes the idea seem a lot more appealing. But rolling movement and combat into one statistic still sounds a bit iffy to me. Open to having my mind changed otherwise though.

Dey

This game depends mostly on EQ, most of the time. There's those.. more than rare instances when someone can get right back off of their feet with just a shield and a mace, but mostly, when you die, you have to go and equip, and hope like hell no one finds you.

An equipped Warrior is a warrior who's going to WHOMP you, especially if they have decent saves. Ogre warrior's more so. But, as you all know, every class has its bane. Warriors / Battlemages, Thieves / Ninjas, Battlemages / Invokers, Berserkers / Clerics, ALMOST ALL CLASSES / Clerics .

Little off topic, but thought I'd bring that up.