forums wiki bugs items changes map login play now

Combo Synergy

So I was thinking about how mages and melees fight in general. I think mages generally want to land their spells in hit and run fashion unless they are close to a kill. Melees pretty much want to be in combat as much as possible for maximum DPS. What if we gave mages (and potentially melees or underrepresented melee combos which I'll go into later) an extra incentive to stay in combat, while not destroying viable hit and run tactics? I think necromancers already do this rather well with how some of their abilities synergize. This is not a strength or a balancing idea, but more of an idea that is meant to open up methods of combat and reward different strategies.

For example, Battlemages cast rust, and each consecutive cast after 2 successful rusts increases damage by sharpmetal. Or revitalize Colour Spray to mark the enemy with a rune, and if you sharpmetal the rune it explodes for a status effect.

Shamans, (Who I do not think are over or underpowered) could be required to land poison first before dysentery can land, or else make poison allow dysentery to land much easier while making it more difficult to land without poison first. This way you have better luck to "build up" your mal stacking than go straight for the dirtiest one. This can change depending on the perceived strength of the class, but would add to the strategies one could employ. 

DKs, who recently seem to struggle landing mals (The change to buff their mal level expresses this cleanly) could perhaps be MORE dangerous when you are nearly dead. They have better spell penetration (however you want to code it) against lower HP opponents. Conversely if you DO manage to spell someone up at full hp perhaps they take more damage.

Invokers, most people don't seem to think they need help so this would not be a buff. Invokers actually have this effect already with using fire and ice shields to make flame arrows etc better. Compounding Dispel on Hellstream is already a good combo. Maybe Firestorms in forests are stronger with more fuel to fire them. 

Clerics, perhaps try to differentiate damage/combat clerics from attrition clerics. Small value increase on consecutively casted cure crits, but staying in combat increases the duration or strength of their combat abilities.

To tackle underrepresented melee combos like I said I would, What if high int melees (gnomes, elves) got some further bonuses to weapon classes or could benefit past normal melees with dirt kicking. Would a gnome/elf Warrior with a one round lag dirt be OP? (Credit: Wade)

Bottom line is I'm not trying to directly affect strength of classes, *although this could be an effect of these changes if Staff wanted it to be. *I am looking to make some playstyles more dynamic and bring life to some underrepresented combos. As I mentioned I feel this has already been done very well with some classes like new Necromancers. If any of these examples are attractive as ideas, not as specific change suggestions, I'm willing to thinktank more ways to positively affect combat choices and strategies.

Thanks for reading!

Edited

I like the idea. I think this plays well with another idea regarding having underutilized spells, such as shocking grasp turned into a dot. Another idea is to make it harder for the opponent to successfully save against other synergy spells such as lightning bolt or call lightning.

So first I hit them with a burning hands then blast them with a fireball, or first hit them with poison making plague harder, which then combines to hit dysentery.

Another idea is to make Magic Missile more pervasive among mages. Surprised it isn't. That spell alone could change the whole saves discussion.

I been saying for years that BMG's should have Magic missile.

It would be feasible to use STR as the base source of damage for many skills/spells with INT being the multiplier. Conversely CON and WIS for a minor percentage of skills/spells. DEX is already very well represented across the board for most combos.

This change alone would accomplish most of what you suggest cleanly.

Edited

The passive chaining of abilities, both melee and mage, in the vein of onslaught, would also be a big step in this direction.

Just now, Celerity said:

The passive chaining of abilities, both melee and mage, in the vein of onslaught, would also be a big step in this direction.

This is essentially what I'm getting at. I wanna repeat this is not an attempt to buff any one class though again it could be used to do so. Moreover, it would create different strategies that could be applied in unique situations, while keeping the coding away from a massive overhaul. Right now as an Invoker, I mostly dispel/Hellstream, or utilize vuln damage with fire/ice when applicable. Adding a few more ability chains in classes can increase the impact of skill and decision making by the player.

An example to illustrate my point once more is a champion from League of Legends call Brand. His three basic abilities all do something uniquely extra once he  hits you with any of them first. So Ability A does a stun if you hit them with ability B or C first. Ability B offers more burst damage if you hit them with A or C first, and Ability C offers AOE damage if you hit them with A or B first, and so on. FL does have some of this currently, but I see no reason why we can't keep going in this direction to enrich the value of combat choices and risk taking.

9 hours ago, mya said:

I been saying for years that BMG's should have Magic missile.

Why do you want to give such a unique class a mundane spell that another class already has? 

Why not change rust into something truly useful that does the same as magic missile, but with a twist?

Make it target specific EQ, make it destroy the stats of this EQ (temporarily of course) or even turn them negative (think about it - the more OP the EQ, the bigger the negative buff). There are so many ways to make BMG spells unique and useful, but please, stop copying skills/spells from the arsenal of one class to another. This is a very lazy way to cope with balance problems and destroys the unique feel of the different classes.

Edited

Because it surgically fixes one of the BMG problems, by eroding their opponent saves, by changing a single number on the skill/spell table a 3 min code operation.

You are right that another way would be more unique and preferable.

But it isn't gutting Rust. Because rust is a solid spells at this time.

Spell: rust : modifies hitroll by -9 for 7 hours
 : modifies damroll by -9 for 7 hours
 : modifies ac by 66 for 7 hours

Unsavable debuff that only takes 3-4 rounds to cast that debufs 15-20% of a char hit/dam.

Which is a nice complement to other blinds.

Sear at noon and non noon
Spell: blindness : modifies ac by 25 for X hours
 : modifies hitroll by -10 for X hours
Flashfire
Spell: blindness : modifies ac by 15 for X hours
 : modifies hitroll by -6 for X hours

But unlike blindness, it cannot be cured. And you can't expect people to fight blind, but they will rusted.

Although I think the AC debuf from rust should be a bit closer to 100 AC.

I would rather Colour spray be changed than Rust.

Even better would be to change Shocking graps, that only BMG's get and none practice, into a save debuf like magic missile.

BMG's are a good class. Better in my opinion that for example clerics, because they have access to the 3 saves type.

AFF's from sharpmetal/Sear/Meteors

MAL's from slow,shrink,flashfire,sear.

Mental from Dispel.

Personally, I have always thought shocking grasp should damage health and mana. Battlemages are not invokers of the elements. The shock should be the battlemage drawing out your mana. Just a thought from an old fool. This also makes it no longer an aff but a mal/mental save spell. (Mental would be better I think)

Edited

Logically one would assume It's meant to allow your chaos weapon to ignore dwarf/halfing/duergar magical resistance.  Making it so that it no longer hits magic vulns, etc is a byproduct of perhaps ill written code? Assumptions

34 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

I have always thought shocking grasp should damage health and mana

That is one of the best ideas I have seen. It would aid a lot, specially if it wasn't saves blocked.

33 minutes ago, egreir said:

Logically one would assume It's meant to allow your chaos weapon to ignore dwarf/halfing/duergar magical resistance.  Making it so that it no longer hits magic vulns, etc is a byproduct of perhaps ill written code? Assumptions

Wrong thread Z?

yes lol