Multikilling

In terms of people being brought back, it's that, if you had a reason to kill them once, you have the reason to kill them again. The fact that they were brought back by their god doesn't change that because you don't make anything of this fact. As far as you know, each life is the only life. They don't have any special powers or anything as a result of their god deeming them worthy of another chance. Their god brought them back--they're not themselves gods or immortal.

In terms of knowing you will be brought back, I think the problem is when you assume it's automatic. That's OOC knowledge frankly (and it's not necessarily automatic even though the code does it). It should be role-played as if every life were your only life, and you are miraculously brought back because you have lived your life in fulfillment of your god. This further underscores your commitment to your god, etc. As far as you know you will not be brought back another time, you just got this one more chance. The fact that you have seen it happen to others countless times does not mean it will happen to you.

In terms of knowing you will be brought back' date=' I think the problem is when you assume it's automatic. That's OOC knowledge frankly (and it's not necessarily automatic even though the code does it). It should be role-played as if every life were your only life, and you are miraculously brought back because you have lived your life in fulfillment of your god. This further underscores your commitment to your god, etc. As far as you know you will not be brought back another time, you just got this one more chance. The fact that you have seen it happen to others countless times does not mean it will happen to you.[/quote']

Bingo.

sniff< I remember when Ex-D&Der was a young, ranger-loving newb... asking for help in game and on the forum. And now he's here, posting such insightful things. I couldn't have said it better myself. All I can do is add one thing:

There are two reasons to pk: rp and gear. Gear might only get you killed once. rp will get you killed all day long.

I suppose that's where we differ.

In my book, gear is not an acceptible reason.

it depends on the character. but that's why there are rare and unique items

"Gear" is one of the primary motivations behind every murder that ever takes place, real or fantasy. There is always someone who is willing to kill, in order to get what they want. Need some drugs but don't have cash? Kill Rex, the dealer down the street. Want some diamond necklaces to pawn on e-bay? Bring a gun and a burlap sack down to the jewelry store.

Want a new piece of titanium fullplate? Go kill that Storm Giant Warrior.

"Gear" is one of the primary motivations behind every murder that ever takes place, real or fantasy. There is always someone who is willing to kill, in order to get what they want. Need some drugs but don't have cash? Kill Rex, the dealer down the street. Want some diamond necklaces to pawn on e-bay? Bring a gun and a burlap sack down to the jewelry store.

Want a new piece of titanium fullplate? Go kill that Storm Giant Warrior.

You know, never really had problems with people killing for gear if it fit their character's RP, but I never really thought of it like that. Well said.

In that situations(s) Gear IS part of RP.

Gear, alone, is not a reason for killing someone.

RP is, in my book, the only reason to kill someone.

If they were seperate...then should a compassion cleric kill for gear?

No. However, a thief of like greed would be very quick to kill for gear.

Killing for gear is great when its inside RP.

sniff If you could read the prayer forum, you would see that not much has changed.

Hrm...

In terms of knowing you will be brought back' date=' I think the problem is when you assume it's automatic. That's OOC knowledge frankly (and it's not necessarily automatic even though the code does it). It should be role-played as if every life were your only life, and you are miraculously brought back because you have lived your life in fulfillment of your god. This further underscores your commitment to your god, etc. As far as you know you will not be brought back another time, you just got this one more chance. The fact that you have seen it happen to others countless times does not mean it will happen to you.[/quote']

If you role-play your every life as your last, this game would be veeery dull and boring. People would not actively be pk'ing. People would not join cabals out of fear of permanent death. I mean, if you change the code for a week, only allowing one life per character and you would see what this sort of RP would really be like. I don't think we want that. Also, even atheists and agnostics are brought back from death, and they don't serve any God.

Some things will always be OOC, just because it is coded that way and it's not neccisarily a bad thing. I mean, how many lives do Jhaerek the traitor have? And how come does almost every character know where the Emerald forest is? Where or how did your most recent creation learn where to train certain skills or spells? How does a character really know which death will be his/her last? Is 61 a divine number, seeing how some of the most well-known adventurers were only given that many chances? Is it nod odd that -all- human invokers more often than not are exactly equally smart, wise, healthy, sturdy, etc, or at least very, very close?

On the other hand, blatant disregard for one's own life should be harshly punished. It's all a mix of RP and OOC that can not be entirely solved. And yet, why have there not been people who roleplayed their parents, friends, relatives or enemies as people with numerous lives. For example:

"I knew my father was truly blessed by the Gods after falling from the apple tree and breaking his neck. Several hours later I saw his spirit returning to the corpse to retrieve the clothing and tools, only to materalize shortly after. That evening mom's pie tasted better than ever." or "My uncle was a great hero in his days, I could tell that from the stories he told me. Tales about love and hatred, gain and loss, life and death - even his own, several times. He told me about the world, teased my imagination, and it was with great sadness I attended his final funeral. Why not one more chance? Why not one more life? We would had made a great team, fighting evil wherever it would be found. I just know it.". The possibilities are endless.

Is it OOC? Or original RP? It's all about personal taste and opinion, like everything else in the game.

Interesting points, Melinda. It is arguable that if you knew you had only one life, from a game perspective, you might not want to be involved at all in PK. From an RP perspective however, knowing/believing you have one life, much like many believe in real life, doesn't mean people won't pick up their pitchfork and fight for what they believe in. Though the real-life thing isn't always applicable, I think it fits here because we're talking about people's mindsets.

Out of the many soldiers in the world, who fight wars and battles such, some will believe that they only live once. But they still fight with this knowledge. Taking that in-game you could say the same, the noble knight wanting to live his life fighting for his cause and so on.

It's sort of like a confusion between game mechanics and RP. If in-game, each character had one life, as a player, you would tend to want to avoid PK so you can enjoy your character for as long as possible, however what if you wanted to roleplay a heroic character that is constantly in battle? It may well mean that not as many people would have an RP angle that brings them into conflict. However, taking it the other way around, we as players, know we have 61 lives on our character. Using that knowledge, you could still RP your character as believing that they have just one life. A character that is afraid of fighting, perhaps a nervous gibbering wreck, who only fights when they feel threatened or backed into a corner. THAT is the type of RP that I feel is quite untouched.

RPing your character as having one life wouldn't mean you have to avoid PK at all. You could just take a fresh approach to how you RP with your PK, using your OOC knowledge of player lives. After all, there is a limit to how far you can take roleplay; I certaintly would get a bit bored with myself, playing every character I roll as if I was completely new to the MUD.

Hope some of that made sense.

Dey

I think it comes down to respect for other peoples game play, thats it.

If player A is cool, and we rp and he dies, im not gunna kill him again for atleast a day. Unless he comes abck for me.

If they are jerks and are like Zomg wtf newbies I will pwnzor you wit my uder ch@r! then yeah ima smash them a few times.

If they own me consistantly I might kill them twice with no gear. No more then that.

If they are in a cabal and I beat on them consistantly, I will lax on them and let the less pk savvy pk members fight them. Why? Because they will both learn to fight better that way and soon be able to give me a run for my money. Which is alot funner then slaying some newbie.

Just My Oppinion

Yea, just realised my post sort of had nothing to do with the original topic. Ahem.

In terms of RPing this out (assuming that the multi-killing going on is legal and non-trashy for the killer, such as the victim keeps throwing themself at the killer) I think a cool way would be to use the fact that you don't know they've been granted another life.

Foolish Victim walks in.

You: "What? My dastardly scheme failed!"

Foolish Victim: "What do you mean?"

You: "My attempt at taking your life was evidently futile!"

Foolish Victim: "Gonna get'cha now!"

** Fight, victim dies again, you walk off **.

You walk into a room, and see Foolish Victim:

You: "Does this never end? Am I such a failure? Perhaps I should take up knitting!"

Pretty poor example I suppose. My views on multi-killing are dependant on individual cases. I think it was L-A who said something along the lines of, "If someone kills you, then patrols your EQ spots to keep you down, why aren't you doing it to them?".

Looking at the bigger picture, multi-killing, to a certain degree/limit is within the rules. If a certain character in particular, such as say, being Caballed and some non-Caballed char attacks my Cabal, I'm going to try and get them a couple of times, and make statement. That char who constantly interrupts your progress to fifty, killing party members and attacking you whenever they log on? Reach fifty, and turn the tables.

I think there needs to be a justifiable reason for it, although most characters RP would allow them to come up with a reason anyway, and that's where the main problem lies. A dark-knight could kill a Paladin, then kill him again, then kill him again, and merely say, "Oh, I'm so nasty, I want to see this purifier suffer." or whatever.

My concluded thoughts?

If they do it to me, I'm going to play ball.

If they are really going out of their way to give me grief, verbal or physical, I might decide to play ball dependant on the intensity of the situation.

If they are doing something that I, as a character, would find extremely disrespectful, such as an uncaballed attacking my Cabal, I'm going to play ball.

By playing ball, again, I'm not talking excessive overkill, or for that fact it doesn't even mean killing them as soon as their PK shield drops. It could well be over the span of a few real-life days or whatever.

I think I've rambled on a bit too much here.

Dey

If you role-play your every life as your last' date=' this game would be veeery dull and boring. People would not actively be pk'ing. People would not join cabals out of fear of permanent death.[/quote']

Yes they would because they know OOC that unless they do something to really anger the IMMs, they in fact will be brought back. But that's OOC knowledge and should not be part of role-play. In fact, role-playing that "I'm going to go attack this demon DK because even if I die I'll get another life" is the kind of going OOC that will get you slain or perhaps denied--i.e. will make another chance not automatic. OTOH, if you say, "I'm going to go attack this demon because even though I might die, I believe it's right, and trust in my god" that's acceptable RP.

a devout character might believe that they will get another mortal life, but they probably believe that they will get the appropriate afterlife if they live by their convictions

Character condies, player goes to forums, posts it, discussion ensues ... does that mean the forums are the afterlife? ;P

they are the undeath...

a devout character might believe that they will get another mortal life' date=' but they probably believe that they will get the appropriate afterlife if they live by their convictions[/quote']

I guess it's okay to hope for another life--it's when you assume it will be automatic that you're going OOC (and courting IMM reprisal).

Just speaking personally, depending on how much my character disliked another character, the characters' responses are generally something like this:

"Damnit. Stay dead, you son of a *****, and stop coming back!"

As opposed to, "Oh my God! It's Jesus!"

good point, Raar. This is the land of faeries and magic and what not.