bards need flails or whips or something

nuff sed

No. No S&M for bards.

No. No S&M for bards.

LOL:D

I don't think turning them into warriors is the solution. They need something extra though, something special. Personally I'd like them to bring back the Rise of the Phoenix song. With the change that now you can keep pets I think the bird will be very useful. Also maybe improve the bird so that instead of three transformations they get a couple more, each much more powerful.

I couldn't care less about songs. I want lure back. >=(

EDIT: That's not true. Dancing Devil was awesome.

Hah Lure!! I forgot about that! Now that was a fun skill. Lure-Lulluby and the lure-tarot combo rocked!

Ye we should definitely implement those two skills back.

If you combined the old and new bards together you'd definitely end up with something really overpowered. The present bards suck. I think the right mix is somewhere in between.

Feed them bad stuff. Bards were VERY good before their change, but no one took enough time to weed through the 40+ songs they had to come up with a strategy, except Bartog I believe.

Well i think that bards are more like warrior mages than mage warriors if you catch my drift. They can basically only use sword/dagger mace/sword dagger/mace for dual wielding! so they just gonna get blocked!

Anyone remember Warbul? He was definitely after the change and he still rocked the pk scene... first and only bard i'd seen on top10 list... caught me unprepared (totally, especially for a bard) and kicked my ***... idk... my 2c

Sure, but he was a dwarf. Try a human bard, or faerie - they are JOKES. Bards were VERY good before the change; people, I repeat, didn't learn how to use them because their stratagies were very complex.

Bards should lose dual parry and get shield block. That's what I think.

Hrm...

Sure, but he was a dwarf. Try a human bard, or faerie - they are JOKES. Bards were VERY good before the change; people, I repeat, didn't learn how to use them because their stratagies were very complex.

Bards should lose dual parry and get shield block. That's what I think.

A class is not very good if only a fraction of the playerbase can be very good with it. I disagree with shield block, bard is a rogue class. And if I'm not mistaken, they get both staff and mace, each a weapon the other rogue classes can not use. However, I do agree bards should get whip.

Thieves get mace. I don't believe bards get staff.

Hrm...

Ninjas do not get mace, and thieves do not get staff. Bards get pugil, if I am not mistaken.

Quite correct on all accounts, Melinda. Bards get pugil, ninjas don't get mace, and thieves don't get staff, like you said.

Sure, but he was a dwarf. Try a human bard, or faerie - they are JOKES. Bards were VERY good before the change; people, I repeat, didn't learn how to use them because their stratagies were very complex.

Bards should lose dual parry and get shield block. That's what I think.

Heh. No. They didn't have the damage, and they didn't have the lag protection. There is NO strategy that beats the simple, bash bash bash bash bash. Throw shurikens hard? Sorry, bashed. Sing songs? Sorry, bashed, and while you have an instrument in hand, to boot. Outdamage in melee? Sorry, no dual wield, and definitely no dual parry.

I'll agree with anyone who says that the old bards were, in many ways, a lot cooler. Stronger in PK?

That's honestly a comment from someone who doesn't know PK very well, and I mean absolutely no disrespect when I say that. People mention Bartog all the time, but

1. With diplomatic immunity, he rarely had to fight battles against tough opponents if he did not want to,

and

1. Still got his *** handed to him when anyone seriously tried. I saw, at least, two separate cases (a DK and a warrior) who were in basic equipment, simply treat him as reequip sites. As in, walk, bash, loot.

Bards are infinitely stronger now, in their current incarnation, than before, in PK.

The thing about bards I love is that killing them is like killing babies. You kill a bard, you get instant bad publicity. Bards don’t have to PK, PK isn’t enforced. Role play is enforced, and some people don’t want to go through countless, nameless, cause-less deaths learning how to fend for themselves when they can play an excellent bard and destroy their enemies through gossip and propaganda. Being able to tarnish someone’s name with a single note is diplomatic warfare at its finest. Long live bards.

But you guys are right. No shield block. Having lure back would just be swell.

The ONLY certianty of the following post, due to time, memory and lack of log (due to being one of those freshly cut greenies), is Undead and Conclave.

The only bard I've seen beat people down on a constant basis, with the exception of of Warbul, was the one in the Conclave. Of course, being the fact that they were undead did kinda help. Might have been a monk, but I'm certain that monks didn't/don't have uppercut.

Then again, it was my first char that fought against them so they might have just owned me.

There was an undead conclave bard?

I don't believe I ever recall that.

WC

Me either...

The biggest problem I see is not weapon selection but weapon proficiency. I don’t know how to explain this without giving away too much but with basic stuff mithril, onyx ring, teeth necklaces, I seem to have a very hard time even hitting something that has been Dirt Kicked. With comparable equipment at the same level with let’s say a thief; I can at least kill the mobs I rank on. As far as songs go, all the old songs were great, Bards where not supposed to be over powered, they where not supposed to be underpowered, they where not supposed to Murder at all, originally, just defend themselves (much like a healer without the Anti-Undead). Now to call a class that shouldn’t even be attacking you overpowered is in my eyes a joke. Unfortunately I assume quite a few people didn’t abide by the Gentle singing bard RP resulting in a giant cut in skills and songs. I would like to see it back to the way it was, simply fun, but to be honest, I think too many people would still go for the bloodthirsty bard RP. Keep in mind the last bard I played before the remake was WAY before the remake.