This isn't going anywhere except for the "I know what you're saying, but listen to this:" "Yea, I know, but this:"
Thanks for the input, back to the drawing board.
Paladin Wrath
Sup guys, since my name was invoked, here are my 2c.
On my elf paladin, I don't believe there was anyone I could not beat with some hard work; I fought Festorvian's vampire, Aciati, with regularity, and although he got me once or twice, I got him much more. The trick with paladins is that you do need, like Behrens mentioned, a lot of skill, mostly in movement. You need to be terrifically fast on the chase, when you are outdamaging your opponent, or when he is running; at the same time, you need to be an expert in weaving and dodging, and healing to full, while they themselves are wearing themselves out chasing you.
On a side note someone mentioned that Cabal'd paladins who chose to take advantage of heroism (which is of course one of the best things about being a paladin at pinacle) have to sacrifice one of their staple cabal bonus'. What are peoples thoughts on this...would it unbalance Paladins to much to allow heroism to make an exception for Cabal abilities?
As my paly it was essential to have heroism up to make it from the savant cabal to the knight cabal like I had too every 15 minutes or so and still have enough moves to flee from the fight that was waiting when I got my standard back. That being said, No you should not be allowed charmies with heroism irregardless of being in a cabal. It's a great tool, but you don't need it all the time, and I see some palys nowadays always under heroism if they aren't in a group.
Paladins also have an enormous anti-undead tool called "Turn undead". Try it sometime as an opener. You'll find the effects are quite ... tasty.
Healers are the bane of undead, not paladins.
Healers CAN tool an undead with very little effort, paladins I see as more of a champion of the light who can fight any evil opponent with decent proficiency, which I think is achieved.
They have the skills which make them, if well played, a threat to virtually any opponent they come into contact with, its just not easy to beat people, because they are not only "survivable" they have very few weaknesses to take advantage of.
Umm...no one said Paladins are the bane of Undead.
He said try it. It's nice.
I think Warpnow was responding to Zrothum.
And do you know what I have recently just found out what IS tasty? Mounted charge against an unsanced opponent. :eek:
Dey
I hate to say it, but I agree with Behrens/ anyone who says they're fine. Believe it or not, when I first started playing (I played a Paladin), and I pulled an <<< ERADICATE >>> on a slith thief who had been giving me hell with holy wrath. I love that spell.
And do you know what I have recently just found out what IS tasty? Mounted charge against an unsanced opponent. :eek:
Dey
Wrath plus heroism plus holyword plus certain shinies against unsanced non-uber wearing undead during daytime is NASTY. 
Palis
When I think of Palis, One word comes to mind, Sanse(sp?) He went avatar yes but still. He was an outlaw because of his fervor shall we say towards evil... I was in justice at the time and he'd mercy the good ones, and neutrals well they usually just died, along with the evils. I can't think of other palis but Sanse to me was kick butt. And yes its Healers that the Bane of the Undead.
Paladins are overpowered.
Guess I'm just gonna have to put mine on Ebay.
Paladins are far from overpowered, in the right hands they are deadly but not overpowered with most of us behind the wheel. The only thing that is overpowered in the game are vamps and if you know how to fight them they really aren't.
they are - even when you know how to fight them.
Hrm..
Ehh.. Anyone remember Phyrex? He was really scary... Really, really scary. And a paldin at that.