Ranger double rounds.

Make these double rounds or pets attack on murder with ambush. I don’t mean to sound cocky but it’s evident that I am the go to for rangers. 

You want pets to attack with that double round? Set up an AMBUSH!!

The skill is there. Make it wothwile.

Ambush sucks and could use some help, that's a decent suggestion. 

One could also suggest that when a ranger ambushes his fired weapon should go off, or the ranger should get a murder round as well as the ambush attack.

2 round lag and can only be used as an opener, or maybe perhaps tweak it to work like charge where it lags the victim for a round or has the potential to wound or bleed?

14 minutes ago, Unknown Criminal said:

One could also suggest that when a ranger ambushes his fired weapon should go off, or the ranger should get a murder round as well as the ambush attack.

..... This already happens? My advice is master a skill, then comment ;)

Edit: Clarification - a ranger will already fire a bow when ambushing as a 'combo'

It will shoot off even when not mastered. Ambush not only offers a chance to nail for high damage (without protection), but it also nails them with an arrow as long as they have a bow equipped and their quiver still has arrows in them. I like using it when I play them for varying things. Typically you wont get it in a PK aspect because they already know you're there. If they don't though and you wait it out enough you can nail them really hard since they may not be protected. Kind of like with Thieves and Ninjas can get in a free throw in with shurikens by fleeing or opening with murder. The downside is you can only do it in a forested area though, and that's not always possible considering that two areas were partially wiped out of a forest because of the Val Miran fiasco and ongoing RP of it has limited it slightly more, but it can still be worked around.

If however it were made a change, I'd suggest it be path specific if it were to have given double rounds to pets and/or yourself. The reason being is a Beastmaster Ranger would be painful to have double rounds nail them, especially for players like Skree who would put it to far more effectiveness than others. I could see a Archer path shooting of two arrow strikes at once though, or even a Tracker managing to pull it off with their pets due to the surprise of an ambush of concealed pets. It would still be a limited skill though regardless.

8 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said:

..... This already happens? My advice is master a skill, then comment ;)

Edit: Clarification - a ranger will already fire a bow when ambushing as a 'combo'

Master the skill? Hell, I had the skill blacklisted.... lol. I never read that in any change updates so i haven't trained the skill in forevaeva.

I do not believe rangers need any more boons than they already have. They have a powerful arsenal.

I mastered ambush on the ranger I deleted a few days ago. Pretty sure you only do ambush dmg. A round follows where you shoot, but not initially with the ambush dmg.

I checked 'old code'.... if nothing has changed it does actually fire a shot 'if' you are using a specific type of bow.

Quote

Your surprise attack MANGLES the leader of the forest outlaws!

You fire from the Bone Bow of Anduin and hit the leader of the forest outlaws with one shot.

The Bone Bow of Anduin's skeletal drain MUTILATES the leader of the forest outlaws!

This was with ambush at 39% and I don't believe fired weapons was mastered either.

Quote

Your surprise attack *** DEMOLISHES *** a forest ettin!

You fire from the Bone Bow of Anduin and hit a forest ettin with one shot.

The Bone Bow of Anduin's pierce devastates a forest ettin!

And that was when it was at 80% and fired weapons was at 68% apparently. Neither time was it camouflaged which if I recall right, will actually up the damage as well, but it's been a while since I've ever compared the two different types of ambushing. I don't bother with the old code much though when it comes to such things. Sure it is still spot on in certain circumstances, but due to the additions in the game since its release, it's difficult to really say whether or not it is still applicable. Meaning even if it the skill itself changed, races and classes themselves have been tweaked along with armor making it too difficult to gauge the effectiveness of it without testing it in reality far too painful to surmise an actual reality of the outcome.

By the way, it also works with archer made bows if I recall correctly, but I haven't played one in a while either. I'm unsure if it works with store bought bows or Cabal bows though since I haven't really played enough to test that out on a Ranger since I came back. The last time I played a Ranger for a significant time was so long ago that it's a joke to try and pull those logs up to compare them.

On 5/18/2018 at 1:58 AM, Unknown Criminal said:

Master the skill? Hell, I had the skill blacklisted.... lol. I never read that in any change updates so i haven't trained the skill in forevaeva.

Did you really just make comments on a skill that you don't even practice? 

...... boggle

***EDIT: I am confirming that there is a chance to autofire your weapon when ambushing. ***

1 hour ago, Ulmusdorn said:Did you really just make comments on a skill that you don't even practice? 

...... boggle

 

***EDIT: I am confirming that there is a chance to autofire your weapon when ambushing. ***

I've played dozens of rangers, murder round = up to 6 attacks plus a fired weapon, ambush = 1 attack, at best 1 attack plus fired weapon. There is no comparison, if your opponent has counter attack you open with dirt, shoot or thunderstorm.

Ambush allows you to capitalize on a much higher damage though, and even if it's not your go to for fighting a PK, it can at least give you a possible leg up against a MOB you may have issues with otherwise. I have always felt that murder rounds shouldn't allow you to throw objects or shoot bows since it's already something that happens after they flee too (with the exception of shooting an arrow unless it happens to land during the round you'd already be shooting them in at least). It's not completely useless though, and the lag from it sucks if you kill something with it right out, but it's a good opener and I don't believe it can be countered. Not to mention if you're an Archer and you nail a fireblind with it in the first strike, you don't need to kick dirt for upwards of a minute if you time it right. If thunderstorm is landing for high damage it's nice, but it's also like 45 mana which is a huge chunk of mana for most races that can be a Ranger even. If you catch them by surprise though, which is the point of ambush, they're not going to be completely spelled up either making it easier to capitalize on them, especially if you're trying to wait for the weather change. It's not a skill that has really ever meant to be the end of a fight but rather the initial start of one after all. This also lets you get a feel for how they play if you don't already know and it can give you an edge that I doubt anyone would ever consider if they think it's entirely useless.

19 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said:

I've played dozens of rangers, murder round = up to 6 attacks plus a fired weapon, ambush = 1 attack, at best 1 attack plus fired weapon. There is no comparison, if your opponent has counter attack you open with dirt, shoot or thunderstorm.

So. The thread was about ambush doing more. We've suggested it does more. Now you've changed tact to: oh well it wouldn't use it anyway cause murder is better?

Ok then.

6 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

So. The thread was about ambush doing more. We've suggested it does more. Now you've changed tact to: oh well it wouldn't use it anyway cause murder is better?

Ok then.

Wasnt the thread about making ambush a viable skill? The way I interpreted firemans post was that pets maybe should do a murder round because ambush on its own doesnt get used, therefore he made a suggestion of what could get the skill used more.

I stated that I personally havent used the skill in a dogs age simply because more damage will get done with murder, I dont see how ive changed anything. Murder gives up to 6 attacks + a fired weapon, ambush gives 1 attack + a fired weapon. 6 weapon attacks has the potential to do alot more damage than the 1 ambush attack, am I wrong?

Just now, Unknown Criminal said:

am I wrong?

Got no idea.

You either get massive damage from the surprise attack that sometimes nails for a good arrow strike as well:

Your surprise attack === DISINTEGRATES === a dark treant!

A dark treant has some small wounds and bruises. 75-90%

Or you get in a flurry of attacks that you can capitalize high damage if you've got a vuln weapon and vuln arrows that results in a lot more pain than most people will output:

Your surprise attack MUTILATES a dark treant!

You fire from an Iceborn Boomstick and hit a dark treant with a couple shots.

An Iceborn Boomstick's blast *** DEMOLISHES *** a dark treant!

Your flaming bite MASSACRES a dark treant!

Your flaming bite MASSACRES a dark treant!

Your flaming bite MANGLES a dark treant!

Your flaming bite DISMEMBERS a dark treant!

Your flaming bite MANGLES a dark treant!

Your wrath mauls a dark treant.

A large mammoth jumps in front of you!

A dark treant looks pretty hurt.

The second one happens more frequently than you may seem to think, but it isn't a guarantee either. Striking with both a surprise attack AND a bow shot happens most often though with more than just a single type of bow as I've done it plenty of times with other bows as well, with the first example happening infrequently for me at least but still more often than the second example. It's there to flavor them up and take advantage of them, it's not meant to be there to make you unstoppable.

13 minutes ago, Tantangel said:

You either get massive damage from the surprise attack that sometimes nails for a good arrow strike as well:

Your surprise attack === DISINTEGRATES === a dark treant!

A dark treant has some small wounds and bruises. 75-90%

Or you get in a flurry of attacks that you can capitalize high damage if you've got a vuln weapon and vuln arrows that results in a lot more pain than most people will output:

Your surprise attack MUTILATES a dark treant!

You fire from an Iceborn Boomstick and hit a dark treant with a couple shots.

An Iceborn Boomstick's blast *** DEMOLISHES *** a dark treant!

Your flaming bite MASSACRES a dark treant!

Your flaming bite MASSACRES a dark treant!

Your flaming bite MANGLES a dark treant!

Your flaming bite DISMEMBERS a dark treant!

Your flaming bite MANGLES a dark treant!

Your wrath mauls a dark treant.

A large mammoth jumps in front of you!

A dark treant looks pretty hurt.

The second one happens more frequently than you may seem to think, but it isn't a guarantee either. Striking with both a surprise attack AND a bow shot happens most often though with more than just a single type of bow as I've done it plenty of times with other bows as well, with the first example happening infrequently for me at least but still more often than the second example. It's there to flavor them up and take advantage of them, it's not meant to be there to make you unstoppable.

Dont forget the two round lag.

When you take into account vuln weapons the ambush also doesnt consider what you are wielding.

Ambush doesnt need to do more damage, it needs a reason to be used. Perhaps a 0 hour fear when it lands?

2 round lag for pretty much guaranteed high damage (though sometimes not), fired weapon damage, and a possible round of attack beats out dirt kick as an opener every time regardless. You can open with ambush before a tick which will result in most people kicking dirt if they can instinctively so they can run if they don't already have some sort of timer in their client. That means you can also kick dirt almost immediately once a tick happens then giving you the upper hand yet again because you just cleared out two rounds of your lag, hour passes and you blind them while you rub the dirt out of your eyes, and they're now stuck for a full tick without the ability to see or know for sure what weapon you're using unless they already knew anyways.

If it doesn't take into account your weapons being used though, it definitely seems odd that when I have used vuln weapons they always do higher damage than other non vuln weapons. Maybe it just takes the weapons highest roll and strikes for that maybe, but I doubt that somehow. Fear can be pretty strong to add even at 0 hours for a class that is extremely strong already. Most suggestions in the thread I would rather see go into a path specific choice for them though. Tracker maybe but remove their ability to have pets and give them bonus perks of having things like 0 hour fear being added instead of concealment. You'd have to think balance before you start to think about adding more perks to them ultimately. I'm not saying they're bad ideas, but flesh them out some more to win people to your side of thinking. The PK mindset in me says that would be great to add in. The part of me that knows I'll be put up against someone like Skree though with those very perks and extra pets makes me want to say hell no though.

Maybe instead of buffing ambush to make it 'viable', the rangers murder rounds need to be toned to bring its power level down? This would also make ambush more viable as an option.

I think making code changes should be put on hold until lloth does his item rework. 

When the numbers get lowered, ambush will become more viable.