Locked Keeping up with the times,

3 minutes ago, Fireman said:

I will say that I am not for Qraces/classes being automated. I DO enjoy that aspect of RP with the IMMs of the chosen religion. I think it adds a flare to it, but I would like to see a work around to the wait time that some people experience.

Having been tattooed twice(I'm counting Belderon's.) I enjoyed the RP I got from it. That being said, Volgathras made the first one feel so special.. where did he go btw? Just up and left..

I am honestly surprised you say that after your post on the other thread regarding gate keeping of fun content that players want.

2 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

I am honestly surprised you say that after your post on the other thread regarding gate keeping of fun content that players want.

If it retains players, I am for it. I have always been on the side of having cabals in player hands. It stifles RP and relations between cabals. Being a leader or stepping up in a cabal as a mortal will yield amazing results and you can do just about anything you want, I experienced this with Belderon. I had total freedom. I would like to see up to Trusted automated, induction/demotion/removal up to the characters in the cabal's leadership roles, pacts, trade, wars, and all that left to the players. IMM purpose should be to supervise huge decision like removals or the advancement of characters to the leadership roles.

Playing a character how you like is totally fine. Its YOUR character. But if we allow everyone to have a demon, then what? Or everyone to have a tattoo, then what? These things that people feel 'special' for having, are no longer special.

Its definitely a tough line.

While I think some things could be automated and make it a more fun/better game overall, I think there are some things that should be left to mystery. I'll use tattoos for example... they are rare. I have never even seen one. So perhaps they should be less rare, but I don't want to see every person walking around with one. It cheapens the experience of getting one and having it. Because that shows someone really has devotion to a character.

I am not suggesting don't automate tattoos, simply that there should be some things left to application or immortal discretion to reward players who go above and beyond.

21 minutes ago, Fireman said:

That being said, Volgathras made the first one feel so special.. where did he go btw? Just up and left..

He had some real life matters come up that consume his free time. We still talk occasionally, though. I like to run ideas by him.

More automation would free up IMM time for the fun stuff, if a character 'qualifies' for something they should just be able to get it, cleric to shaman being the simplest of examples. It also eliminates hang ups and wait times that come into play because of real life duties. 

With qraces and qclasses it should be the same thing. Watching someone's RP leading up to obtaining a qrace/qclass is a waste of time, people need to be watched after they receive it,  not beforehand. 

Too many undead and demons appearing? Just set a limit, if a demon or undead gets rare purged they also get set back as human to open up the slot.

Players get bored waiting 3-4-5 even 20-30 days for promotions and approvals, I can't count the number of times over the years where I've been waiting for something, log on, didn't receive it and nobody on. So I log out, waiting doesn't make people play more, it makes them log on and then off.

The only thing I think needs IMM approval are tattoos :)

As to the other recent posts: let's make the conscious effort to not be so inflammatory. We can disagree without attacking the person behind the statement. 

Keep it civil, or the thread locks.

You are right, I am usually against changes, considering most of the changes that are suggested are changes for the sake of change, or suggested by people who have little idea how the game works.

This game is like a book to me. A really long book, which I enjoy reading and don't want to end. The sooner it ends, the sooner I will be disappointed.

When I roll a character, I roll it with the idea that it's a long term investment. I like seeing how my characters develops and grows with time. How it struggles to achieve every little piece of EQ, every RP point, every cabal promotion. 

I like this game because those things are not easy to obtain, and when you obtain them, you've achieved something, which not everyone can do.

I am all for automation, but your suggestion is not automation. It is giving stuff away, for free.

Just look at this:

1 hour ago, Kyzarius said:

unlock all qclass/race so you can just go do the quest if you meet the req.

Giving Qstuff for free.

1 hour ago, Kyzarius said:

auto promote to trusted if no other high ranks

1. carry this out to E.  Make L an election process. Or if suitable a duel process for WM.

Giving promotions for free.

1 hour ago, Kyzarius said:

Make Tattoos a quest for each religion, visit your shrine do the quest get the tattoo for your devotion.  Everyone could have one

Giving tattoos for free.

1 hour ago, Kyzarius said:

make edges selectable at 10, 20, 30, 50.  with one of the new necklaces given at 50.

Giving edges and necklaces for free!

What you suggest is not automation.

You want to give EVERYTHING away, for FREE!

It will take no effort to achieve those things. And since it will take no effort, everyone will get everything, and then they will get bored, lose the sense of achievement, and leave. This game's biggest ace up its sleeve is its mystery, and no matter how many people criticise it for its flaws, keep in mind that it has been running for 17 years! And the same people keep coming back over and over, because there is always something they haven't achieved.

Once again, what you suggest is not automation. It's giving stuff away. The only thing you didn't suggest, is giving every DKN a malform after 10 hours ingame time.

I don't like stuff to be given to me. I like to work for them. Those closer to me know that I have a little saying when it comes to DKNs, it goes like that: "The worse things that can happen to a DKN is to have two full malforms." --- because then you lose all interest in playing.

PS. It's really funny because I suggested exactly this for Halloween Madness  and you were one of the strongest opposition of the idea.

3 minutes ago, Unknown Criminal said:

Too many undead and demons appearing? Just set a limit, if a demon or undead gets rare purged they also get set back as human to open up the slot.

Well imms could handle this creatively too.  To many vampires? drop some anti vamp mobs that hunt them, give goodies a temporary buff against them.  Throw in some super vamp killing weapon.  Tides turn, crumble those things, remove the buff....to many crusaders? do the opposite...

The thing is, most people seem to forget, that qclasses arent like I win buttons.  They are HARD.  Vamp day/night blood req is a pain, and can be very difficult.  I caped a vamp by petrifying it and locking it in an area as the sun rose for example, erased another with my psion because of some spell vulns.  

4 minutes ago, Unknown Criminal said:

 

With qraces and qclasses it should be the same thing. Watching someone's RP leading up to obtaining a qrace/qclass is a waste of time, people need to be watched after they receive it,  not beforehand.

I agree with this point 100%  Waiting all that time rping with the fountain in val miran when I could be leveling my new lich and learning the ropes.   When you roll a vamp, you roll the VAMP you dont role a human stuck at 30 as a dk...thats just temporary.

inb4 "the immortals actively buff my enemies! Not fair!"

@f0xx you are unique then.  I play the game so I can PK and write a good story through RP, run a cabal have some heart thumping evenings and then go read a book to my daughter.  I dont have time for long long long drawn out development.  hell I got that in my own life, this is a game, not a school assignment wher eI need to make daily journal entries or I get behind in imaginary points.   

Maybe you have the time for some massive investment, but our pbase numbers, and discussions seem to suggest you are the extreme minority. 

Everyone has families now, and like @Telufial said limited hours per week to even play.  And if that means sitting with my laptop watching tv for 10 hours just to wait out some stupid timer then to hell with it I can go fly the freaking enterprise in full VR in my living room. 

**Mystery as a form of player retention is a double edged sword, and isnt working.  It falls in the same sector as veterans knowing secrets that let them win, which drives players away. **

I want there to be 4 vamps, and 2 crusaders, and a lich, and a warrior whose mastered slaying avatars, while a ranger is running around wiht the "stake shooter" culling the vamps.  While Savant and Warmaster combine forces to take over the eastern lands, The syndicate begins working for the empire, watcher being able to RP an alliance and an avatar promising to kill himself when he finishes his mission so they accept that.  

and yeah, these things should be free.  I should not have to WORK to access the GAME I love.  It should all be open to anyone who dares step up to the plate.  With the time it takes to level, train, and learn the classes the only time you need to get into the fray.

Beer is my buff.

2 hours ago, Lloth said:

He had some real life matters come up that consume his free time. We still talk occasionally, though. I like to run ideas by him.

Try to get him to come back. The current Nexus IMM is horrible...

Foxx, I disagree that making in-game pathways to end-game content is equivalent to handing it out. Difficulty is an independent domain distinct from the mechanism of attainment.

I for one very much dislike the idea that an Imm must approve cabal applications, induction,  trusted, elders, and leaders. Past that, I simply won't be playing in a world where cabal imms enforce faction vendettas. It's cookie cutter nonsense. Savants need not battle warmasters if the greatest threat to their contextual goals are the tribunal.

Right now, it generally does not matter who leads a cabal. They will play the pre-determined role set based on someone else's idea of RP. If the savant cabal is empty and the door open for me based on time in hourglass, I am the leader, and it is mine to shape. That's the game I want to play. Whether Lloth or Virigoth or the Queen of England agrees with my style of play is totally uninteresting to me.

RP point case study: Rhodan, who had close if not more than 150 hours in game and spent most of his time roleplaying only collected 48 RP points.

That's equivalent to spending 3/4 of a month playing as a full time job, or playing 7 days straight with no sleep. A full half month of the waking hours of my life. This is equivalent to .32 points an hour and it is dumb. The RP point award/effort ratio does not encourage my continued engagement. Nor do I enjoy applying for points. Since this is an RP enforced mud, the assumption is a positive correlation between time and roleplay. If someone isn't roleplaying, it can be looked into, but as it is we are asked to prove that it did occur. Micromanagement is not something I consider as recreation.

Question:

Do people think of RP points lost PK implications it'd still be a big deal to get them the current way or rate?

Personally, I have never spent an RP point on a pk based perk. I am always after colors and equipment restrings for the flavor of it.

10 minutes ago, Fireman said:

Question:

 

Do people think of RP points lost PK implications it'd still be a big deal to get them the current way or rate?

Do you mean if the equipment and perks you can get from RP points were no longer available?

13 minutes ago, Zavero said:

Do you mean if the equipment and perks you can get from RP points were no longer available?

Right. If the things you received were strictly cosmetic. Titles, renamed items, houses, follower pets(non-pk), room echo ability, world echo ability, ventriloquate(if it worked anonymously), skills/spells were custom worded similar to assassinate. 

One of the most fun things I've EVER had in FL  was 100% cosmetic. I don't know if anyone remembers, but Ekhurift's war cry was a howl. I would purposely wait to use my warcry until I got into the area of my enemy so they knew they were being hunted by a wolf. It just had the feeling being badass.

43 minutes ago, Mali said:

RP point case study: Rhodan, who had close if not more than 150 hours in game and spent most of his time roleplaying only collected 48 RP points.

 

That's equivalent to spending 3/4 of a month playing as a full time job, or playing 7 days straight with no sleep. A full half month of the waking hours of my life. This is equivalent to .32 points an hour and it is dumb. The RP point award/effort ratio does not encourage my continued engagement. Nor do I enjoy applying for points. Since this is an RP enforced mud, the assumption is a positive correlation between time and roleplay. If someone isn't roleplaying, it can be looked into, but as it is we are asked to prove that it did occur. Micromanagement is not something I consider as recreation.

As you said yourself, you don't post on the forums, to keep anonymity. So we don't see logs from you. How can we reward you for things we don't witness, if you don't share them? 

What would the solution be, otherwise? An automated system that you can dump text to for a reward? How would you validate the input to ensure it isn't just a garble of text? How would you validate that it isn't a resubmition of an earlier rewarded interaction? How would you handle rewarding the other characters of a log, based on their participation and input? 

If a change is wanted, cover the whole implementation concept. The "how" is every bit as important as the "what and "why".

One other point I think is relevant is that gatekeeping excludes the binge player in the sense that there is no equivalency of game hours when compared short term and long term.

A character with X hours spread over two months is not equivalent to a character with equal hours played over 3 days.

In all other games, even multiplayer RPG's, what matters is time spent interacting with the world. 

A character with 60 hours spread out over 2 months will be caballed, qraced, and moving up in the world.

A character with 60 hours spent over 3 days will probably not have made it past dcheck, and will certainly not be caballed or qraced.

This is a disincentive for binge play when, say, a service member returns from a stint overseas, or a student has a week off between classes, or someone is on maternity/paternity leave.

Automation of end-game content will equalize hours spent interacting with the world. Whether the hours are achieved over time or over a few days will be irrelevant. 

I also think this time equivalency concept, when joined with freeing up cabal leadership and quest races, will make the game more dangerous and more fun. If Watchers have 0 members, the potential for a binge player to put the time in on the short term, gain a q race, and grab the leadership spot is scary as hell... but could also be really really fun on both sides of the battle.