The haste is coming from something he wears, it isn't the wheel. I think it's Warmaster EQ? Ebbargar something or other. It still very odd a Gladiator can get haste regardless. Just because a piece of armor can cast a spell, doesn't mean it should still bypass the entire gladiator ideals. Any spell forged EQ or magical EQ that i usuable should burn them to the touch.
That Is Just ridiculous lol. Burns then? So cut off the equipment totally?
They can't cast the spell from a spell forged item fyi.
It is a high level unique lockbox item. Count 2 = there's only the possiblity for it to pop up twice. It also has a downside, moreover there are 2 spells, one of which is haste, you cannot choose which one you get.
I don't think getting rid of the murder round is the answer, but I also think that some classes become OP on murder rounds like Feral ninja with doublesheath. That's a arrow, a possible murder round and an auto-throw. Add that you bypass counter while using a bow and it's pretty op.
I think a possible approach to the murder round would be to prevent double rounds to give more breathing time. This would allow murder to still deal damage, but prevent it from happening at the same time.
Murder double rounds happen from what I know from you murdering very close to the schedule of the normal round, so much that they almost happen at the same time.
In the mud we have tics (30 seconds), but every tic has a certain number of pulses. Like minutes has seconds. Imagine that the round attacks happen at pulse zero. If you type murder at pulse 0, you get your murder attacks plus the round attacks. What we could do is make a check to prevent murder attacks from happening near the pulse where round attacks happen.
Example: Imagine a tic has 8 pulses. 0 to 7 . I murder at pulse 4, and I get the murder attacks. But if I murder at pulse 6 , 7 or 0 I lose the murder attacks because the round attacks are right near. This could be further refined by selecting the max number of attacks. For example at 0 I get no murder attacks, but at 6 we allow the primary attack, and at 5 the primary and second attack, and so on.
I don't think getting rid of the murder round is the answer, but I also think that some classes become OP on murder rounds like Feral ninja with doublesheath. That's a arrow, a possible murder round and an auto-throw. Add that you bypass counter while using a bow and it's pretty op.
I think a possible approach to the murder round would be to prevent double rounds to give more breathing time. This would allow murder to still deal damage, but prevent it from happening at the same time.
Murder double rounds happen from what I know from you murdering very close to the schedule of the normal round, so much that they almost happen at the same time.
In the mud we have tics (30 seconds), but every tic has a certain number of pulses. Like minutes has seconds. Imagine that the round attacks happen at pulse zero. If you type murder at pulse 0, you get your murder attacks plus the round attacks. What we could do is make a check to prevent murder attacks from happening near the pulse where round attacks happen.
Example: Imagine a tick has 8 pulses. 0 to 7 . I murder at pulse 4, and I get the murder attacks. But if I murder at pulse 6 , 7 or 0 I lose the murder attacks because the round attacks are right near. This could be further refined by selecting the max number of attacks. For example at 0 I get no murder attacks, but at 6 we allow the primary attack, and at 5 the primary and second attack, and so on.
A more clearer example.
Pulse/ Attacks:
0 - none
1 - all
2 - all
3 - 5
4 - 4
5 - 3
6 - 2
7 - 1
0 - none
You mean a "round" has 8 pulses? Not a tick right?
I don't think getting rid of the murder round is the answer, but I also think that some classes become OP on murder rounds like Feral ninja with doublesheath. That's a arrow, a possible murder round and an auto-throw. Add that you bypass counter while using a bow and it's pretty op.
I think a possible approach to the murder round would be to prevent double rounds to give more breathing time. This would allow murder to still deal damage, but prevent it from happening at the same time.
Murder double rounds happen from what I know from you murdering very close to the schedule of the normal round, so much that they almost happen at the same time.
In the mud we have tics (30 seconds), but every tic has a certain number of pulses. Like minutes has seconds. Imagine that the round attacks happen at pulse zero. If you type murder at pulse 0, you get your murder attacks plus the round attacks. What we could do is make a check to prevent murder attacks from happening near the pulse where round attacks happen.
Example: Imagine a tic has 8 pulses. 0 to 7 . I murder at pulse 4, and I get the murder attacks. But if I murder at pulse 6 , 7 or 0 I lose the murder attacks because the round attacks are right near. This could be further refined by selecting the max number of attacks. For example at 0 I get no murder attacks, but at 6 we allow the primary attack, and at 5 the primary and second attack, and so on.
A more clearer example.
Pulse/ Attacks:
0 - none
1 - all
2 - all
3 - 5
4 - 4
5 - 3
6 - 2
7 - 1
0 - none
11
Here is an example of a well thought out solution. Fair for all. Great job Mya
I look at the use of a double murder round as Exploiting a bug. There is no reason for a murder round to do double damge. Thus making this a bug.
Honestly, the amount of people who have absolutely no idea what the "murder" command does is astonishing.
It does not do double damage. It's not a "double" round.
The same way an invoker opens with a hellstream, and gets lagged for one round, the same way a cleric opens with evil aura and gets lagged for one round, the same way a warrior can open with murder and get lagged for one round.
"Murder" is a skill with one round of lag. Just like path of deceit, just like acid blast.
The murder skill throws a round of melee attacks at you. Sometimes, just like any spell, when you cast it late into the round, it will "blend" with the next round, thus making the round look like a "double round". This has a downside though, because instead of one round, the warrior would be lagged for two rounds.
There is a very simple way in which you can counter "murder" and not just murder but anything. When a melee opens with "murder" all you have to do is quickly dash a spell back at him. This will negate the advantage he has tried to gain on you. In order to do this though, you must be fast and have good reflexes.
Notice this - a mage can counter a melee round by dishing a spell back at the warrior, but a warrior CAN NOT counter an opening hellstream, by dishing a murder round back at the invoker (unless of course we are talking about the bug that happens when opening with mental and mal spells).
This in example of how murder works.
Melee walks in.
Melee types "murder Mage", followed by "dirt mage".
Sometimes, murder rounds will be blended with the first round like this:
EXAMPLE 3:
Quote
Melee's first attack hits Mage.
Melee's second attack hits Mage.
Melee's third attack hits Mage.
Melee's forth attack hits Mage.
Mage's fire shield hits Melee.
Melee parries Mage's attack.
Melee's first attack hits Mage.
Melee's second attack hits Mage.
Melee's third attack hits Mage.
Melee's forth attack hits Mage.
Mage's fire shield hits Melee.
Melee parries Mage's attack
Mage's hellstream OBLITERATES Melee
Melee: [===|===|===|===]
Melee: [===|===|===|===]
Melee's first attack hits Mage.
Melee's second attack hits Mage.
Melee's third attack hits Mage.
Melee's forth attack hits Mage.
Mage's fire shield hits Melee.
Melee parries Mage's attack.
Melee's dirt kick scratches Mage.
Mage is blinded by the dirt in his eyes.
Melee: [===|===|===|===]
Mage's hellstream OBLITERATES Melee
Melee: [===|===|===|===]
When you look at what's happening overall, it's actually WORSE for the melee in the long run to have his murder round blended with the first round, because if it does, the melee can only dirt kick after the second round, and if it does not get get blended, he can dirt kick after the first. This is especially true for players who are not so fast, because they will not usually be able to counter murder rounds like shown in example 2.
Good, solid explanation f0xx. I know you've done it in every single murder/wimpy thread made, but I really hope with the rounds written out that it'll make more sense to those struggling to understand it.
I have been party to Kotrags "well timed" murder rounds. He is so good he actually times them to exploit them. Why would he do this if it gave him no advantage?
You can say all you want but those "BLENDED ROUNDS" Are insane.
@f0xx Your explanation makes complete sense. Yet I think you are trying to say that are less potent than they truly are.
You can not time murder rounds to be blended. This happens entirety by chance.
Well I dont think I have ever typed murder player ever. I only play a mage....I think I am gonna give it a try though. I feel like I do not have enough information to actually speak on it. So in all fairness I am going to bow out of this convo.
You fire from the Bone Bow of Anduin and hit Geoffram with a couple shots.
The Bone Bow of Anduin's pierce maims Geoffram!
Your smash decimates Geoffram!
Your slice decimates Geoffram!
Your smash misses Geoffram.
Your smash decimates Geoffram!
Your slice decimates Geoffram!
Geoffram's ice shield MASSACRES you!
You dual parry Geoffram's attack.
Geoffram has some big nasty wounds and scratches.
As you can see from the log above, Geoffram was CLEARLY winning despite the murder round. Why? Because he was fast enough to take advantage of it. Now, whether he can replicate that feat consistently is up for debate, but there is proof that murder rounds can go very, very badly for the murderer.
Here is a REAL PK application of what f0xx described above. Combo is an FG Nexus Warrior vs Faerie Invoker Knight:
As you can see from the log above, Geoffram was CLEARLY winning despite the murder round. Why? Because he was fast enough to take advantage of it. Now, whether he can replicate that feat consistently is up for debate, but there is proof that murder rounds can go very, very badly for the murderer.
Okay I see now. Yet was that a trigger or a fluke? Trying to stop that is like milliseconds in real time. You gotta be so fast.
Geoffram was CLEARLY winning despite the murder round. Why? Because he was fast enough to take advantage of it.
His first dispel only took half the time duration of a round. That is why the hell-stream entered before your second murder. He was fast enough because he was the only class that can cast faster than the time of one round.
1 hour ago, f0xx said:
's actually WORSE for the melee in the long run to have his murder round blended with the first round, because if it does, the melee can only dirt kick after the second round
Murder lag is always the same. You open with murder, then you get laged for the time duration of a round. You don't have to wait for two rounds, just for x amount of time.
What likely happened is that Geo put through the dispel at roughly the same moment that Zan attacked - you cannot react quickly enough to have your spell be timed along the end of the round like that, though you will often have a second between the murder and the first round to react in. It's a tiny window, but it is there.
. it's actually WORSE for the melee in the long run to have his murder round blended with the first round, because if it does,.
Says no melee ever. Your talking about murder rounds that can get 8-14 unanswered hits at times, that's the issue I find in most cases. Murder rounds overall are obviously essential to initiate a fight, there just needs to be a better way to defend those unanswered exchanges. Sure, allow the first murder to eat your face because maybe you were surprised, but the second one in a specific amount of time should be defended against better. We have an epidemic of flee murder, flee murder. We all know this, it's no secret. Add some auto throws from ninja's and thieves and it's just amplified.
Here is a perfect example, Kelmi's recent fight: This is what his murder round did to someone. Now, imagine if he fleed and did that again.
maim = 35
decimate = 27
decimate = 27
LACERATE = 48
graze = 7
MASSACRE = 73
injure = 15
graze = 7
maim = 35
scratches = 3
graze = 7
If someone flees from his murder round add another Throw - MASSACRE = 73
= 358 HP (If they fleed)
= 285 HP (If they didn')
That essentially means two murder rounds will drop 570 HP, now if he murdered them and they fleed twice to try and escape, that is 716 HP gone in record time.