Lately I've been reading a lot of topics regarding mage vs melee. Seems like everyone talk about how much more damage output there is for melees while mages have stayed the same.
What if we changed the dynamics of dirt kick to help level it out? Mages are reliant on casting spells to hinder their opponent while melee just need armor and weapons. If a Mage can't land a few debuffs they are in for a rough ride 9/10 times.
Ive had some mages and im always suprised how often things don't land against mediocre armor yet dirt kick lands 95% of the time. Perhaps it's time to tinker dirt kick success % against AC a little more. The higher the AC the lower the chance of it landing. I know this is already in affect somewhat, but maybe we need to beef it up. This might give mages a little bit more of a chance.
As a Mage my success rate of landing blind was at best 50%, while my melees dirt kick was 95%. Maybe we should re-look at this.
A mage's blind will last anywhere between 5 and 9 hours. Dirt kick lasts to the end of that tick. If we're going to balance out the "50/95" for when they land, then the duration should as well.
I guess one option would be to give casters an option to cast a stackable, weak version of their spells at a very high success rate. For example, blind might have a 75% greater chance to land, but only for 1 tick (contrasted to dirt kick's 95%, 1 tick, non-curable, non-stackable). You could cast it 7+ times to get the same duration, if you wanted. A spell like dispel might drop one single affect each cast and so forth. So you'd have a tactical option of casting reliably, but slow (takes repeated casts) and weak or casting as normal.
I think it might be a fun system. Give an option to cast a spell with lower spell resistance by about 75%, divide the duration/effect by 8, and max out the stacking at 8 casts (can't overstack to be more powerful than the original spell). Could even make it into a nice RP thing -- you cast high power spells in a different form than low power ones. Lots of potential for various things in this idea.
It is interesting how you are hitting on chance to hit.
That is what makes my mages buff, I wrap unavoidable spells up into my offense then rely on them to make a wedge for other things.
And spell level of course.
Also a lot of people play a mage and go straight for the blind, skipping any +save abilities that NEVER miss. These savants complaining about their spells not working makes me cry tears of blood.
It is admittedly harder these days though. The point keeps just getting glossed over. Melee classes have output and saves far higher than ever before in FL.
I say give all casters a spell level bump. Though People bitch constantly about my mages when I have spell level gear.
Therein lies some of the problem. Because elite players kick ass with mages and melees. Non elite players get their asses kicked whether they play mages or melees and can sometimes get lucky and win with a mage or melee.....that is the divide between player skill and not so much mechanics of the game. I'm not saying it doesn't need looking at maybe but I'm also not saying it does need looked at. I know I am terrible at mages but that is mostly because I can't keep track of all the crap I have to cast all the time to keep everything up where with a melee I can remember things like sanc, protection and maybe flight(if I want it).
As a Mage my success rate of landing blind was at best 50%, while my melees dirt kick was 95%. Maybe we should re-look at this.
Ok, for most of you this might seem a bit out of character, but I don't think there is nothing wrong with dirt kick.
Dirt kick landing rates are fine. All mages can fight on water to avoid dirt kick. All mages can use room selection to decrease dirt kick landing rate. All mages can flee if dirted.
6 hours ago, Kyzarius said:
I say give all casters a spell level bump.
Spell levels have been tinkered recently (1+ year). Some of you might have noticed that the level of our spells is now greater than it was before. This is a fact.
If this had/has any impact on spell landing % ONLY Morlarch / Erelei can tell, because he told us he had reworked the saves thing.
In my OPINION mages are landing better against the same saves a few years back, but not at the rate the level got increased, if they even still have any correlation level to %landing rate.
I SUSPECT this a balancing feature due to the hike in armor saves, like the new RP necklaces.
Anyhow nothing of what I wrote contributes to a solution.
I THINK the best solution is to just tweak using armor.
Ideally toning down uber EQ hit/dam rolls, but this takes to many manhours, so something generic that just takes little coding time.
For example the "miss" due to AC could be tweaked to provide more misses for meele attacks.
000-300 AC - 5% guaranteed miss rate (thats 1 in 20).
300-400 AC - 7,5%
400-500 AC - 10%
500-600 AC - 15%
600-700 AC - 20%
700-1600 AC - 20%
with guaranteed miss rate being unaffected by hitroll or THAC0 (class). You always get it.
In my opinion the use of THAC0 detracts from the game, as different classes having different chances to bypass armor just obfuscate this mechanic. The lack of dual wield penalty would be enough for the classes that have that bonus.
That's what I figured, but what most are talking about is innate abilities of normal classes. That qclasses and one cabal helps them doesn't do much for non-savant invokers, necros and bmgs.
That's what I figured, but what most are talking about is innate abilities of normal classes. That qclasses and one cabal helps them doesn't do much for non-savant invokers, necros and bmgs.
000-300 AC - 5% guaranteed miss rate (thats 1 in 20).
300-400 AC - 7,5%
400-500 AC - 10%
500-600 AC - 15%
600-700 AC - 20%
700-1600 AC - 20%
with guaranteed miss rate being unaffected by hitroll or THAC0 (class). You always get it.
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I think this is a great idea, though the % should be higher if your able to get 600+. If someone has high MAL saves your chances of landing a blind is quite low. The same thing should be for high AC vs Dirt.
With modern playstyle some of these spells are obsolete in shown affect, and only the secret bonus of the spell does any good.
If we go back a few years, a healer landing calm on you seriously dropped your combat abilities, and hindered your command of pets.
With todays #'s this spell is only useful for the hidden affect that limits your commands.
I believe that elite players playing mages are doing well.
I believe we have created an atmosphere where a new player will only become frustrated if they go caster first.
For this reason alone, I support the Idea we need to do something.
If I had a suggestion, I would offer it. But honestly, I don't even know how your hitting those numbers.
As far as I can tell it just the eq that is the difference. I have steamrolled characters with my mage that dont know how to dress. Anyone who knows how to properly put a set of eq together doesn't need the best of the best to stop a mage. They can still reach ridiculous hit dam numbers while having enough saves to be annoying. Add in fury......recipe for mage death. I will continue to say it. If you want to build your character to be hit dam. Should have little saves. You want saves....you should have little hit dam. That's what I feel is the problem.
This bullcrap of dirt kick flee. dirt kick flee. It takes me so long to blind someone. Then when I do.....I watch them flee. quaff a potion and thats that. Blind done. Like it took me taking a beating to land that damn blind......and its just gone......
As far as I can tell it just the eq that is the difference. I have steamrolled characters with my mage that dont know how to dress. Anyone who knows how to properly put a set of eq together doesn't need the best of the best to stop a mage. They can still reach ridiculous hit dam numbers while having enough saves to be annoying. Add in fury......recipe for mage death. I will continue to say it. If you want to build your character to be hit dam. Should have little saves. You want saves....you should have little hit dam. That's what I feel is the problem.
Spot on. The issue is Power creep on melee armor over the last few years. We have had some great areas put in - and i think it has brought some really good improvements - but saves alongside Hit / Dam is to easy to put together these days.
I'll give you an example - The Armor of Ice used to be an item that was fought over - was never in, and was considered essential if you had to go up against casters a lot. These days? Pretty much always there. Why? Because you lose Hit / Dam by taking it, and you can get enough svs vs aff in a suit of other items without taking the hit.
We need to look at armor that has been added in the last few years, and ask ourselves what the downside is. Equip used to be balanced around the idea that you could be strong in one area, but would suffer in others - This doesn't seem to have been a consideration when adding more recent equip.
Spot on. The issue is Power creep on melee armor over the last few years. We have had some great areas put in - and i think it has brought some really good improvements - but saves alongside Hit / Dam is to easy to put together these days.
I'll give you an example - The Armor of Ice used to be an item that was fought over - was never in, and was considered essential if you had to go up against casters a lot. These days? Pretty much always there. Why? Because you lose Hit / Dam by taking it, and you can get enough svs vs aff in a suit of other items without taking the hit.
We need to look at armor that has been added in the last few years, and ask ourselves what the downside is. Equip used to be balanced around the idea that you could be strong in one area, but would suffer in others - This doesn't seem to have been a consideration when adding more recent equip.