Perhaps there could be a look at things like assassinate, and pry, primarily. The main reason is it feels like these mechanics are a double edged sword. They serve a great place from a roleplay perspective, but the reality of the skills is they essentially make people just log out. The idea of study giving unblockable combat damage is a great one, and would be a good way to progress further. I do not know what to say about pry though, it just makes people quit knowing there is a thief around. It also promotes staying away from areas where people commonly interact on a roleplay level. Thief or Ninja in town, you stay out of town. That is everyone's answer. From a PK standpoint, that's spot on. From a roleplay standpoint it really hurts the functionality of a pk/rp environment.
Mechanics that make people log out
People can roleplay anywhere in the game. Ninja and/or thief in town? RP in Elium. Ninjas and thieves play vital roles in throwing equipment around the game. Cant kill so and so? Assassinate them and loot. Ninjas can be killed (well, they could pre-changes). The problem with ninjas now is that they are a bit stronger than they should be, but the changes are cool. Thieves can be easily beaten too.
I think people keep saying that assassinate is needed to move equipment around the game, but that is simply not the case. So, that argument is NOT holding water anymore.
A lot of players will do exactly what was said, log off OR hide far away and not engage. Its not promoting a shift in equipment, its promoting not playing the game. People rarely create an assassinate ninja to RP or better the environment in that aspect, they create them to try to assassinate and full loot, which doesn't work in most cases as people log off.
Currently, looking at the changes that have been made, ninjas are leaning on the overpowered side of things. Endure and bless being able to stack, unless it was changed. Masharu trance is hitroll plus a damage reduction, I believe. Lotus scourge poison is insanely powerful.. All that being said, we haven't had a ninja dominate just yet, so I don't want to jump the gun on the " OP statements."
Though, it'd be par for course to see them being overpowered. The current trend of classes being redone is to see them become overpowered and unbalanced only for the players to show this and then they get toned down.
My suggestion? Expect any class that has been redone to be unbalanced and overpowered at the start.
You are operating under the assumption that the rogue wants to fight. If a rogue doesn't want to fight, what then? They can simply sit in town, and be done with it. No need to fight unless you are absolutely guarateed the victory.
You cannot say a rogue can easily be beaten if the rogues in question simply avoid a fight.
People said necromancer were op. Yet the ratio of buff necromancer to number of necromancers seems very much in line with how it was previously.
The new necro really just reached power peak quicker. We still have what, one currently active one doing very well? I've played both sides of the new class and both sides of the old one and found it really to have the same feel. Just not reliant on groups to reach a power peak.
My vote is still out on the new ninjas. I've fought one on one of my characters and it was a blow out, the ninja was destroyed. Though that is just one type, a shadow strike ninja I believe.
Regarding assassinate I personally hate it. I loved the change that doesn't let them study you while they fight you. Since any cabal warfare vs a ninja seemed to have an inevitable outcome.
Of course I haven't seen an assassinate in a long while. I know I take precautions when rogues are about. And that most players are quite paranoid regarding them.
On the rp aspect you can arrange to meet in off the road places really. As for the class being overpowered, we'll we haven't had one dominate just yet. My feedback from allied ninjas is that most of them suck. They are also fighting over the same gear, and there is a lot of them.
Don't we have a Syndicate E who is a Thief?
Problem solved, just load up those bounties.
You gotta remember you can go and RP anywhere - thats been said. Sitting in town with no one around as a rogue is so god damn boring. Power to anyone who wants to use their down time doing that......
11 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:
People said necromancer were op.
I don't remember anyone saying necros were OP. Except the normal noobs who say that for any class who beats them.
The necromancer rework was very well thought out (with some minor remarks) and implemented.
Im just saying that these mechanics promote logging off or avoiding towns. Alot of my favorite RP sessions have been struck up while simply sitting in town interacting. If a rogue is around, those random sessions dont occur.
Prying is fine, there are multiple ways to counter it. Assassinate just needs to go.
That being said, wanting to take away pry and assassinate because "it prevents RP" is a silly excuse and I think you are hiding your real intention behind it.
PS. "We need assassinate for rare circulation and to take down the unkillable guys" is also a silly excuse by the way.
Fine tuning is something that SHOULD BE EXPECTED if we overhaul things in the fast track way we are doing it now.
Nvm.
Yea, there will always be imbalances with the speed you all are doing major changes.
But @f0xx can you honestly say that having a mechanic like assassinate, and to a lesser extent pry, doesn't make people log out of the game? Or avoid cities, which is the most likely place you are going to run into random characters, espescially lower level characters?
Having been assassinated and playing assassination ninjas before, I disagree that the skill should be removed. It isnt as simple as people think. Many people avoid cities as it is and the player base is low. The way ninjas have been changed is pretty cool, just waiting for the tweaks here and there. As someone else stated, if you want to RP, ask them to meet you in a cross road or a forest. Use it as your RP. Dont expect to just sit in the central square all day and RP. Ninja or not, if someone wants to kill you, your sitting in the open.
Masharu trance is not damage reduction. Endure doesn't stack with blessing anymore. That said, if you guys think they're OP - please put logs on the prayer forum. Blindly making assumptions leads to panic and misinformation, and unfortunately, leads to people crying for change for something they don't even understand and then, I'm forced to make a chance that wasn't OP to begin with. :)
12 hours ago, Erelei said:
That said, if you guys think they're OP - please put logs on the prayer forum. Blindly making assumptions leads to panic and misinformation, and unfortunately, leads to people crying for change for something they don't even understand and then, I'm forced to make a chance that wasn't OP to begin with. :)
Well said!
I am not suggesting anything is OP. There are ways to deal with these skills, but all these ways detract from character interaction. IE hide in some far off corner of the game, and don't talk to anyone because of certain cabal skill. I just don't know how good an idea it is to have classes that are able to make people log out strictly because of a skill they may be using. I know when I briefly played a thief, I would log in, and the moment people would see me on who list, people began logging out. It wouldnt be more than a half hour most of the time until I was the only level 50 online.
Thieves aren't that deadly. 99% of the times you face a thief you can actually do something. Specially if you took the time to get a no-drop container. The other 1% are 2 hit kills from Backstab and his wife Double Backstab.
Now ninjas assassination .... that's scary.
Assassination is hard, and playing around it is easy. There are also two whole styles of ninja that depend on it. Removing it entirely is NOT something I believe should be done. The revamped ninja paths focus heavily on melee, and I think that for the class to still feel like a stealthy rogue, they should keep those two paths, and assassinate. Otherwise, I feel they are at risk of losing their RP identity as, well, ninjas.
Also that why we have the facility to "tell" people. So you don't have to wait for someone to walk by to RP.
You can just say. Hey! Come to the dune see where no one can approach us for DAYS before we see them... Then we can chat and have tea parties.
Its called Healer Island Tea Bazzar for a reason.
I am not saying it is an unstoppable mechanic, I am not saying it is easy. This is not a complaint that it's too easy, and op, and needs removed. I am just saying it stifles character interaction. That's all.
One thing I never understood is monks, and blademasters, have the anatomy skill. I tried to play a monk not long ago, and training anatomies was a pain. Same with a blademaster. You spend literal days mastering everything about a body to be able to poison, or weaken, or blind them. But a ninja can study relatively quickly without any prior knowledge of your anatomy, and you being armed to the teeth in gear (that's what it's for right, circulating rares off of super decked unkillable folks?). It never really made sense that you must completely master the body of a giant to unlock strikes to call out plague, or stun your opponent, but in about a game day you can kill them. Maybe ninjas need anatomy, and they can only assassinate the races they choose expertise, and mastery in, and the rest would be used to determine study strike damage?