Average damage is a component of a sader weapon/mal, but it is by no means the end all of it. It's the combination of avg damage and the other benefits that the weapons get that make them the most potent in the game. A sader weapon/mal with a lower avg damage will still be better than a weapon with equal or greater avg damage but without the other stuff.
Galumba [dwarf bard] VS Phalanxe [ogre archer T council] & Visimaar [storm sader T adjucator]
Steal is no OP, I really don't see why ppl think so. It's SO easy to get around and completely neutralize.
*Anonymous poster hash: ** be8e7...b52 ** *
I'd be more concerned about the unblockable two round AOE lag skill than anything else. That's nuts, when combined with that kind of melee output (I'm just imagining the mage tears flowing).
I mean honestly, he almost killed a bystander... by mistake.
To add a couple of things:
-
The lag dissonance inflicts is more aching to sear/wrath i.e. a round and a half somewhat.
Galumba: [===|===|===|=--] (989/1221hp 721/746m 392/423mv)
Visimaar's poison scratches her. Visimaar's thrust misses you. Visimaar's thrust *** DEMOLISHES *** you! Visimaar's thrust *** DEMOLISHES *** you! Visimaar's thrust *** DEMOLISHES *** you! You can feel 'Humilitas' the Harvester of Sorrow dig into your body. Visimaar's thrust DISMEMBERS you! Shaken with the staggering blows, you loose grip on your weapon! Visimaar tries to disarm you, but your weapon won't budge! You fire from the Bone Bow of Anduin and hit Visimaar with a couple shots. The Bone Bow of Anduin's pierce maims Visimaar! Visimaar blocks your attack with her weapon. Visimaar blocks your attack with her weapon. Your depressing melody LACERATES Visimaar! Visimaar has quite a few wounds.
Galumba: [===|===|---|---] (603/1221hp 721/746m 392/423mv)
That's ~400 damage in one round, through sanc, with one attack missed. Had she rushed me in there, I would have been dead.
*Anonymous poster hash: ** e4293...e19 ** *
If you have a problem with a Bard bash it to death.
The damdice are all over the place too.
If you have a problem with a Bard bash it to death.
Good luck with that 
I have a hard time believing that a skill that can do this
"Your harsh discord does UNSPEAKABLE things to X"
can also lag. It would be very ... OP.
I'm not even as worried about the damage from the ability (although an unsanced eradicate on a lag ability might be a little much). I'm more concerned about AOE lag that can't be blocked.
Post this anonymously.
Phalanxe can get to -550 ac with a staff and bards still hit me like I have no defenses. I also am not sure which arrows he was using but the fact that nothing I shoot at him did more dmg than he did to me. I couldnt even chase and shoot as he was running because it was putting me close to death.
I've always believed it was unfair that as an archer it didn't matter how well you shoot or fair (can't say how far) but they could always shoot arrows back at you with no lag to them
*Anonymous poster hash: 91bd8...bf8 *
Meant far not fair, phone auto corrected me lol
*Anonymous poster hash: 91bd8...bf8 *
Good show!
Imho, wimpy should be disabled at rank 50.
100% agree Mali.
If anyone is not completely certain that bards are OP after this and the log with the berserker... Clearly they just want to keep killing with one.
Makes me want to roll a bard.
PS:
I had a high sight 'sader. Unless they were improved since Laegan, I maintain that they suck. I never hit vulns for the full damage, nor did I ever get all of my attacks to even fire. So I basically had two attacks with sub-par damage.
For those claiming bards ARE overpowered - roll one and dominate the pbase. I dare you.
My High Sight Crusader did completely negligible damage (Regarding High Sight and vulns, specifically) as well. I had the exact same experience Mudder describes, and much more recently (about two years ago).
If only I had some logs of highsight crusaders from 2-3 years ago. I've seen them get four attacks a round and hit === with regular attacks. DISMEMBERS through sanc and protection. And even unspeakables with impale vs a nonsanced target.
The fact is that there are certain selection choices that make them the "strongest" of the crusaders. And I say that because ----IMO--- it nearly nullifies all the crusaders weaknesses, which from my experience is their all around damage output.
Now I know there have been many changes recently but that doesn't mean they are fixed, just means that someone else thinks they are not working properly for some reason or another and is tinkering with them.
That someone else just happens to be the immortal staff. 
That was my point 