Any goodie cleric that dies to an invoker is playing very poorly. You flee at 50%' date=' heal, rinse repeat. Eventually, as with EVERY class a goodie cleric fights, you will wittle them down til they die, or at the very least you will create a stalemate, and by doing that your going to make the other person take unnecessary risks to try to win.[/quote']
Theoretically.
Cleric Portal
My invoker with a bag of 90 nymph hearts and 50 red and white staves will make your goodie cleric cry for his momma.
EDIT: See that, f0xx? See what I did there? I'm egging him on!!! I'm a good troll!!!
You're a fool if you are using healing consumables against a cleric, Valek 
Any goodie cleric that dies to an invoker is playing very poorly. You flee at 50%' date=' heal, rinse repeat. Eventually, as with EVERY class a goodie cleric fights, you will wittle them down til they die, or at the very least you will create a stalemate, and by doing that your going to make the other person take unnecessary risks to try to win.[/quote']
Because being in a stalemate with someone who can destroy your EQ is so much fun.
If one is fighting a cleric and neither side is willing to take risks, in pretty much every situation you are left with a stalemate. That does not change the fact that invokers shred clerics quite nicely. At 50% hp, most clerics will have, what, 3-500 hp? A dispel, call lightning and hellstream can effectively be dropped surrounding one round worth of combat... and if they all land, that will be 3-500hp gone almost instantly (hell, forget the dispel, I've seen 3 call lightnings do that through sanc). Meanwhile, the cleric has absolutely no ability to burst that kind of damage at the invoker, so the invoker is free to flee at his leisure if the cleric is somehow managing to attrition him down.
Frankly, as a good cleric fighting an invoker... I'd pretty much refuse to fight, unless I had cabal skills that I thought would carry the difference.
Why is the smart cleric fighting an invoker outside, in the rain/lightning?
Why is the smart cleric fighting an invoker not using spell turning to stop
Dispel Magic?
Why is the smart cleric fighting an invoker not summoning a bunch of tough
mobs for the invoker to hit with area spells?
Why am I telling all the non smart clerics what they should be doing?
Why is the smart cleric fighting an invoker outside, in the rain/lightning?
Why is the smart cleric fighting an invoker not using spell turning to stop
Dispel Magic?
Why is the smart cleric fighting an invoker not summoning a bunch of tough
mobs for the invoker to hit with area spells?
Why am I telling all the non smart clerics what they should be doing?
So my cleric stops using consumables. :confused:
Good clerics can pretty quickly attrition invokers through melee/unblockable damage (oprogs/gear shield anyone?). Add in cabal skills (which will help the cleric much more than the invoker) and the cleric won't have too tough of a time. Once the invoker gets poisoned, the kill is there.
So is druid gate also too powerful? I don't really see the issue with portal - what else do good clerics have going for them?
Oh, please YES. Solidify my point for me while trying to argue..
Btw druid gate is a tweak of teleport. Cleric gate and druid gate are NOTHING alike.
Druid = neut qclass =pk restrictions.
As per the helpfile druid gate is somewhat RANDOM, but will always send the druid to forest. This makes the druid much easier to track down.
Also note, adding an element of randomness was one of my suggestions for how to even out portal.
As per the helpfile, BECAUSE druid gate is random, it doesnt GUARANTEE the druid safety.
In conclusion, give portal those same characteristics and I would never complain about portal again.
However, do that and the portal skill also loses all usefulness. Because it would only be teleport with a different name.
I think that should answer your question..
Recall like lag has been added to portal if you are bloody. There will be no more changes to the portal spell, though.
I preferred the no portal if blind solution.
This kills the portal offensive use.
Since we toned down Portal can we please make Ray cost only 30, like PAth of Deception? It costs 40 mana.
Cleric vs invocker is boring fight of counters. Only surpassed by the king of boring fights, Cleric vs Cleric.
Invoker, Mana shield. Cleric spells shield.
Invoker can only use area spells, Cleric can only meele and cure.
Fireball sucks, call lightning is not happening because cleric runs inside.
Invkker stuck on Icestorm.
Cleric stands there eating icestorm after icestorm, and either cure criticaling or casting dispel.
If cleric summons, Invoker moves.
And this goes on for a long long time.
If the cleric is a dwarf, it's worse for the voker.
If invoker has vuln, even better for the cleric.
Ray of Truth has the potential to deal MUCH more damage than path from my experience.
Recently while fighting a goodie cleric, my current character was taking sanced mangles/obliterates through -90 affl, sanc, and protection.
That's because you are protecting the wrong save type.
You people will never learn.
Also Obliterates on a sanctuary + protection? That means you are a Vampire, or a Squid.
And Ray/Path are evil opposites. They deal the same damage, based on reverse condition. Ray on opponent skill. Path on self skill.
Ray of Truth deals damage based on target's pks. Once you hit a certain point it REALLY hurts.
I am playing a Drow. I assure you, having recently fought both Romlious, and Voraan, I consistantly take mangles-oblits from ray. These are not lies, or stretching the truth. During my next fight(s) with them I will be sure to log so you can see it. I am still currently at 80 affl saves when I swap my saves gear in.
I am also at 65 mental, and 68 mal. So my saves in all categories are what alot of people say excessive.
Good clerics can pretty quickly attrition invokers through melee/unblockable damage (oprogs/gear shield anyone?). Add in cabal skills (which will help the cleric much more than the invoker) and the cleric won't have too tough of a time. Once the invoker gets poisoned' date=' the kill is there.[/quote']
If you say so. My experience in invoker vs clerics has always been as the invoker, and while I've not fought one of your clerics, I can tell you that I have never died to a cleric as an invoker, and the vast majority of times I found them to be relatively easy fights.
Nameless, by the rationale you're using, one is justified to tell anyone who died to anything at any time that they played stupidly as everything in this game has counters available. I don't tend to consider intelligence as meaning one doesn't make mistakes, nor do I think it stupid to expect that one cannot always control the situations that one ends up fighting in. Time to relocate to an indoor spot, summon a ton of mobs, and sit there waiting for your enemy to come to you? That's one hell of a luxury.
I preferred the no portal if blind solution.
This kills the portal offensive use.
Of course, that was the point.
Ray of Truth deals damage based on target's pks. Once you hit a certain point it REALLY hurts.
I am playing a Drow. I assure you, having recently fought both Romlious, and Voraan, I consistantly take mangles-oblits from ray. These are not lies, or stretching the truth. During my next fight(s) with them I will be sure to log so you can see it. I am still currently at 80 affl saves when I swap my saves gear in.
I am also at 65 mental, and 68 mal. So my saves in all categories are what alot of people say excessive.
Please post a log. And please don't hide the HP, so we can see how much damage those oblits are making.
For you to take *** that means you are taking 100+ damage from ray/path.
That's 200+ dam if you don't have sanctuary, and ~260+ from no protection.
Interesting the saved damage from a spell that deals Obliterates should be mangles.
My first reaction would be to say you forgot sanctuary. Specially since you clain Obliterates and not ** demolishes ** which is below Obliterates. But I know you are a better player than that.
Typically you will see decimates vs a "saved+sanctuary+protection" target. One of the reason I hardly play clerics anymore.
Only the log can tell.
Nobody has pointed out that if the good cleric is setting their portal defensively (in some 50 area), they aren't using portal correctly. You don't need to be worried about those clerics who make their placements in such places...
Portal is best used offensively--to finish people off at their temples with recall lag or to cut people off in the path of returning standards (for example, just north of Maelbrim).
Portal should have a recall-like lag though, since I think this awesome finishing power isn't consistent with their "weak finishing, high durability" design emphasis.
Patreus used to set his Portal next to the Chieftain so he could easily check for armor.
I said mangles-obliterates, indicating the damage dealt ranges from mangle, to demolish, to obliterate. I assure you, I am not forgetting sanctuary either. I will get the requisite logs.
That is pretty typical damage for a full power ray/path. Both can hit up to === without protections.
Pali: Like most things, I think it just boils down to the players/combos involved. The more equipment/cabal abilities involved (assuming equal on both sides), the more advantage the cleric gains ( i.g. godsuit dwarf cleric sigil L will stomp godsuit drow invoker temp/reaver L..neutrals obviously much more difficult, but a good cleric almost never has a reason to fight a neutral). As with any non-lagger vs non-lagger with good players..no kill will be made outside of unusual circumstances (from which the cleric is much more likely to recover), so it is pretty moot.