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Sliths power and bards.

I think that sliths having lost some of their power was a good thing.

As they were quite powerful.

But I came to think that distributing camo for goods, swallow for neutrals and second eyelids to evils was not the best of choices.

Specially for the neutral sliths, who got the worst of it.

Eating corpses has no PK use, while all other skills are PK geared.

And can be made completely made redundant with some milk.

In my view sliths should be able to select their "Slith Power", just like Werebeasts.

Any RP issues regarding colour can be addressed with recessive or throwback genes and or inbreeding. After it could be very easy for, lets say, Slandren to have a blue slith grandmother.

-Bards can now be evil.

-Duergar can now be bards.

-(Evil) bards can now join Nexus.

Another thing. With the introduction of Duergars as bards, I think it is also time to allow Sliths to be bards. In fact all non giant races can be bards with the exception of Sliths, Drows and Ferals and Werebeasts.

I can understand the restriction of Ferals, due to their uncivilized nature. And Werebeasts due to having little to do with civilization.

But Sliths have no reason to not be bards. Even more now that you can have evil bards. And they would be an alternative to the OP Dwarven bards.

Also, I think that HELP DUERGAR3 needs to be updated to include bards and HELP CLASSES to, in order to reflect this new awesome changes .

Also, if you are changing help files there is very minor typo on HELP RACES.

Storm giants G should be on left, not on center.


 ,----------.---.---.---.---.---.---.
 | Race |STR|INT|WIS|DEX|CON|ALN|
 :----------:---:---:---:---:---:---:
 | Human | 20| 20| 20| 20| 20|GNE|
 | Elf | 18| 25| 20| 23| 16|G |
 | Drow | 18| 24| 20| 24| 16| E|
 | Dwarf | 21| 18| 21| 18| 25|GN | 
 | Duergar | 21| 17| 20| 20| 22| E|
 | Halfling | 17| 17| 21| 25| 20|GN |
 | Gnome | 18| 23| 25| 18| 18| N |
 | Avian | 19| 21| 21| 23| 19|GNE|
 | Fire | 25| 15| 15| 16| 23| E|
 | Stone | 24| 16| 16| 16| 24| N |
 | Storm | 24| 17| 17| 16| 22| G | 
 | Illithid | 17| 25| 23| 18| 17| E|
 | Minotaur | 23| 17| 18| 17| 22| N |
 | Slith | 20| 17| 17| 22| 21|GNE|
 | Feral | 19| 18| 21| 24| 20| NE|
 | Beast | 21| 19| 19| 21| 20| N |
 | Half-elf | 19| 21| 20| 22| 18|GN |
 | Faerie | 14| 25| 20| 23| 14|G |
 | Ogre | 24| 19| 15| 18| 24|GNE|
 '----------'---'---'---'---'---'---'

How many lizards do you hear sing?

How many lizards do you hear speaking?

Lizards make sounds? But they can hardly be called melodic?

so a good slith bard could both camo and hide?

that would be interesting.

I disagree with Mya's suggestion.

I believe Slith's abilities were split as they were because neutral sliths already have a pk advantage by protection spells not working against them (true or for them, but that doesn't balance itself out).

I don't think they should be able to choose their skill at creation. They already get to do that by choosing align. If they want a particular skill, then play that align, if you want to play a particular align, then accept the skill given them.

Lizards make sounds? But they can hardly be called melodic?

Not to us. Surely to them. A bard would reflect, in my view, the preferences of his people, not foreigners.

Also there is no speech impediment, as in the case of ogres.

I believe Slith's abilities were split as they were because neutral sliths

I think it was because the 3 skills in conjunction made them very powerful.

This in a time where eating corpses gave you a PK edge because it allowed you to sacrifice everything inside with ease.

Only slith thieves are more powerful by being neutral.

Warriors greater melee dependency gives them a reason to chose a non neutral alignment.

If I wished to play a Syndicate warrior who hides in the forest to ambush my prey I cannot. Nor can I play a good slith thief who cannot be blinded.

In my view racial skills for the same should not depend on alignment. Alignment should dictate RP interactions.

If I wished to play a Syndicate warrior who hides in the forest to ambush my prey I cannot. Nor can I play a good slith thief who cannot be blinded.

In my view racial skills for the same should not depend on alignment. Alignment should dictate RP interactions.

If I wished to play a warrior with power word kill I can't either? Whats your point? There are combos and skills not available to every class/combo/align for a reason.

Dwarves are far from the best bards, and far from OP.

Bards sing to make money, traditionally. You don't make money by having a voice only a Slith would want to listen to.

Giving autotrip to a bard would be downright nasty. Bards require certain skills to be used at the start of and periodically through the battle. This causes them to walk a certain line in fights. Timing of their skill usage is very specific, and very unforgiving. Remove that restriction with autotrip and you suddenly have a melee ninja with near cleric-level protections throwing out earthquakes and fireballs. With superbuffed followers. hint-hint Tribunal and winterwolf cape.

Giving camo to a bard entirely routes one of their weaknesses: the inability to rely on hide to get them out of trouble (or start it), as they don't have detect hidden.

Giving them dirt protection makes them almost as defensive as a warrior, again in addition to their already incredible defense and utility skills.

Bards have far too much utility as a class to justify giving them the utility of a slith, alignments be damned.

Not sure about the slith bard idea. But I've always wanted to do something about the racial perks of the sliths. Particularly the good and neutral aligns.

Bards sing to make money' date=' traditionally. You don't make money by having a voice only a Slith would want to listen to. [/quote']

A slith would.

Help Slith3

Relationships with Other Races

Slith are generally intimidated by creatures larger than them and pay little

heed to creatures smaller, and so almost all of their dealing is with

equivalently sized creatures. In general, the Slith are not social creatures.

Their markets are open to any who wish to do business, but they seldom

seek out customers, or anyone, for that matter."

The Slith run a huge city, Falen Dara. It has a Bard's guild.

And a tavern with a Slith entertainer, performing for a small gathering.

Also this thing about the voice is a misconception of us players and TV culture.

Sliths never had any trouble expressing themselves. It is movies that depict humanoid lizards speaking snake like, something that would be alien to us.

Regarding it's power. I agree that Sliths would be more powerful that Elves or Humans. And on the same scale as Avians. But still worse than Dwarves.

Bards need a crap load of Hitroll to be effective in meele. Which gives dwarves an double edge.

As 21 STR means more +2 hitroll and +1 damrol over 20 STR races.

And the ability to focus more in hit/dam gear since they resist magic naturally.

Not even mentioning the HP disparity.

Auto trip is what makes sliths interesting. But that does not makes them any more dangerous than slith thieves.

One could argue that you could steal flight consumables. But that is extremely easy to prevent vs a class that lacks pry or a reliable way to put you to sleep.

Bards need a somewhat long preparation before combat. And their buffs are very short lived. It is common knowledge that bards are weak.

It is a class designed to look good, but with weak legs. More of nuisance than a PK power.

They surely do not have cleric like protections or ability to have superbuffed followers.

They have the same protections as a DK, but with cure serious instead of a cure light. For more 5 mana you now heal ~33 hp instead of ~20.

Their only offensive buff is what? That battle song, that is worse than a clerics frenzy, with shorter duration and needs a instrument.

My Knight cleric was placing +8/+16 hit/dam on the knight pet +sanctuary. Bards +7/+7 is no where close.

And then there's the weapon proficiencies. Sword, Dagger, Mace and Staff.

Not even spears. With both Parry and Dual parry relying so badly on the knowledge of your opponents weapon, that even being able to see you will mostly only dodge.

And unlike thieves, with zero bash avoiding perks.

No. If someone thinks they would roll a Watcher slith bard and roll over the Player base they would be mistaken. The first giant warrior they meet is going to bash their heads in.

Why does everyone think that neutrals bypassing protection is a perk?

It works both ways. Neutrals deal and take more damage. It isn't a perk or flaw.

Edit: As for slith perks go, you could cycle it based on the IG calendar...depending on the season, they try to put on weight (swallow), they rest (camo), or they hunt (double eyelids).

In general, the Slith are not social creatures.

Their markets are open to any who wish to do business, but they seldom

seek out customers, or anyone, for that matter."

Hmmm... seems they wouldn't do what a bard does... go out and seek an audience/customers...

Regarding it's power. I agree that Sliths would be more powerful that Elves or Humans. And on the same scale as Avians. But still worse than Dwarves.

Avians are secretly the best bards in the game, with correct perk, cabal and alignment choices. Dwarves/Duergar are decent bards, and stronger than elves/humans/gnomes, but they would be weaker than autotrip, and so would avians.

Bards need a crap load of Hitroll to be effective in meele. Which gives dwarves an double edge.

Half true. Luck is more important for most of their skills than Hitroll.

As 21 STR means more +2 hitroll and +1 damrol over 20 STR races.

And the ability to focus more in hit/dam gear since they resist magic naturally.

Not even mentioning the HP disparity. And the super-easy vuln, the inability to handle weapons that make use of that Hitroll, combined with the low mana (too low for prolonged engagements considering the duration of a few key battle spells, and the reliance on several songs being cast mid-battle in essence turns dwarves into less effective throw-tanks)

Auto trip is what makes sliths interesting. But that does not makes them any more dangerous than slith thieves.

Entirely false. Slith theives don't get a built in curative, huge defensive boosts, AoE spells, pugil, or the possibility of a fourth attack

One could argue that you could steal flight consumables. But that is extremely easy to prevent vs a class that lacks pry or a reliable way to put you to sleep.

It is never hard to steal from people, it just takes patience. Giving them the ability to camouflage would mean even fewer safe havens.

Bards need a somewhat long preparation before combat. And their buffs are very short lived. It is common knowledge that bards are weak.

It is a class designed to look good, but with weak legs. More of nuisance than a PK power.

Bards suffer from a few things. Their mechanics are clunky at best, and they are extremely unforgiving of lag (hence the strength of avian bards). They're mana intensive in prolonged fights, and don't have a reliable way to lag an opponent. However, giving them that ability to autotrip would BREAK them. Uppercut, autotrip, vuln-damage throw, pugil, with all the -AC and saves they can obtain with their buffs is scary. No other melee class in the game can get as much -AC as they can without a shield.

They have the same protections as a DK

False. They have more.

Their only offensive buff is what? That battle song

False. Sun Tarot. Which actually puts them at more.

And then there's the weapon proficiencies. Sword, Dagger, Mace and Staff.

Not even spears. With both Parry and Dual parry relying so badly on the knowledge of your opponents weapon, that even being able to see you will mostly only dodge.

And unlike thieves, with zero bash avoiding perks.

First true statement in your post. Still irrelevant, though.

No. If someone thinks they would roll a Watcher slith bard and roll over the Player base they would be mistaken. The first giant warrior they meet is going to bash their heads in.

If anyone rolls a Watcher bard of any race they'll get rolled. Tribunal is way better, arguably the best in every situation.

And about your idea that bards don't get superbuffed minions... I'd try that one out yourself before saying it. Your songs benefit all group members, to include NPCs.

No other melee class in the game can get as much -AC as they can without a shield.

Spell: barkskin : modifies ac by -75 for 7 hours

Right, 'cause there's no consumables for stone skin

Stone skin grants -40 ac, not -75. That's a pretty good boost on normal buffs.

If anyone rolls a Watcher bard of any race they'll get rolled. Tribunal is way better, arguably the best in every situation.

And about your idea that bards don't get superbuffed minions... I'd try that one out yourself before saying it. Your songs benefit all group members, to include NPCs.

Ah fail comment.

Nekky's bard was a beast in Watcher

Consider me corrected on that front then. Still maintain that Avian is better than Dwarf, though.

heh, she said OP and bard in the same sentence.

made me laugh.

With the right bonus skills a bard can seem OP. Think about certain cabal skills. Fortunately the skills that will make them truly OP, are only in the cabal that frowns on PK.

Mya, your slith bard would get bonuses that would make them seem OP before they even tack on certain cabal skills.

put me down for -1 on this one.