I am curious how your friend would have reacted if he had reached his pinnacle fast and had his face ripped off?
New people, actually most people, get their faces ripped off ***early ***and late. It's all a matter of how often it happens and whether you're experienced enough to return the favor.
My comment about diablo was aimed at the people who like to have end game experience NOW.
You are right, I can't compare diablo to FL. In diablo all the fun is in leveling, and in FL the fun starts once you are levelled. Learning to invest and then receive is one of the most important lessons in life.
And your friend doesn't have to train if he doesn't want to.
It's getting annoying to have people repeating over and over, "If we don't do this our PB will never grow." And then they suggest a huge *** change and a promise of brighter future. You want our PB to grow? Then learn to code, because it would be silly to invest time into a core change that might actually lose us even the few players we have, when we don't have an active coder at first place.
Still can't believe we are discussing removing of ranking and training because some kido want's to play CS.
BTW, while we are on the subject, it's actually the training system that got ME hooked into FL. Me coming from diablo 2, where my skills were getting better because of redirecting skill points to them, I found the training system in FL quite ingenious.
What is cs?
What is cs?
FL doesnt have pretty graphics' date=' and badass soundtracks[/quote']
Make some triggers that play sounds, and it's only up to you how badass soundtracks your FL experience has.
Eat some mushroom, or some random pill found on the street, and the graphical experience will certainly be like in no other game.
(Why you even bother with taking that argument on the table?)
On a more serious note, I must agree, that I don't see utterly a lot of point in that I set up trigger-based training, and start doing something else (like reading forum). I certainly wont be staring the screen for longer than half minute, while getting a skill from 75% to 100% takes least half an hour. With skills that require that the player actually controls the training-situation, this is not as bad, because I am playing the game, not the triggers. And manually spamming "trip" does very similar than staring the trigger doing it: I fall asleep. Literally. (due to AD(H)D, too monotonic situation dead-drops my awakeness[word?])
As a suggestion, one way to combine faster training and more in-game social behavior, could be "extremely much faster" skill learning when training on another PC. People would also learn slightly more about true PvP behavior during doing so (compared to idle spam vs NPC), while most daring would be outright training thru PK. Think of monks. If I don't remember wrong, and things are as they were before on this subject, they CAN'T get anatomy masteries with NPCs, they're forced to train them on PCs, in either spar or PK. (please, don't get me wrong on the "forced to" part in this subject, the monk is just an example of something similar (faster learning on PvP) already in use)
Regarding the hunting, there's some players who might be willing to help your hunting (solo or not), if they're feeling bored. If you got coin, or any other value for trade, you might be able to lure a Merchant to aid you (may work on non-Merchs as well). As an example, a thief can do wonders, if you provide him enough talismans to prepare some targets while you're taking down one. In some hunting places, mere blackjack is a true blessing. Just as an example.
The people I bring here give up at description creation.
Just guess how many characters I've abandoned at level 15. Just guess how many come-backs for me have been delayed due to this. It's not only about that I'm not native english speaker, it's also that I simply SUCK with writing a description of a character, even on my own language.
Even "funnier" is, that I (usually) don't even read other characters' descriptions. The longer desc, the less likely I'll read it thru. I form the image about the character fully upon how they behave (emotes, says, etc). As an example, if description (that I havent read) says that this human at front of me is old fart and it shows, yet the character behaves as if he'd be a youngster ready to kick my *** thousands of times in a row, I don't see him as an old fart. (in case I would have had read the description, I probably would feel like "where's the toilet so I can flush this jerk off my face")
comparing diablo to the mud
I've had punch of well trained 50s, even some condeaths. I never passed 2nd-difficulty (hell?) on Diablo2, because I got bored of going thru all the same **** I just had passed on earlier difficulty. Hardcore could have had kept my interest up, but cheater-PKs and "yes my lvl 80 can one-shot-kill your lvl 20"-PKs just killed the last bit (worst losers combined the cheating and lvl 80).
Ps.
#action {^It starts to rain.$} {@play{Noise.wav}}
#action {^You open {.*} you.$} {@play{door.wav}}
#action {^Lightning flashes in the sky.$} {@play{thunder.wav}}
(those are in real use)
anything that requires a new player to write complicated scripts is not a solution.
anything that requires a new player to write complicated scripts is not a solution.
You just couldn't swallow the sarcasm, but instead let it hit you on the head?
You just couldn't swallow the sarcasm' date=' but instead let it hit you on the head?[/quote']
Sarcasm or not. You brought up a good point relative to customizing clients to improve the games shortcomings. Though it really isnt a solution, because you cant expect any new or even average player to be able to write scripts.
Also sarcasm in a discussion forum is like pissing in the wind. Some % of that is going to blow back in your face in a nice fine mist.
Sarcasm or not. You brought up a good point relative to customizing clients to improve the games shortcomings. Though it really isnt a solution, because you cant expect any new or even average player to be able to write scripts.
Also sarcasm in a discussion forum is like pissing in the wind. Some % of that is going to blow back in your face in a nice fine mist.
If it's a shortcoming, that this game doesn't have graphics or sounds on it's own, then you're playing wrong game. I bet that some players would actually get disturbed from mud-related sounds while playing mud, if such a thing would suddenly be implemented and automatically in use for everyone.
Due to the strong PK factor of this game, I've learnt to ignore some content that is (mostly) irrelevant for PK. Thus, for me those sound-triggers are useful if I wan't to keep up with the in-game environment, and have my character to actually react on such ambient things as a weather. It just also happens to nicely increase the atmosphere for me.
Then, the original subject was not the lack of sound or graphics, so why we're having this discussion in the first place? Probably because I got some of my own pee on ma face in a nice mist, right? (rhetorical question, so please don't answer)
If it's a shortcoming, that this game doesn't have graphics or sounds on it's own, then you're playing wrong game. I bet that some players would actually get disturbed from mud-related sounds while playing mud, if such a thing would suddenly be implemented and automatically in use for everyone.
Due to the strong PK factor of this game, I've learnt to ignore some content that is (mostly) irrelevant for PK. Thus, for me those sound-triggers are useful if I wan't to keep up with the in-game environment, and have my character to actually react on such ambient things as a weather. It just also happens to nicely increase the atmosphere for me.
Then, the original subject was not the lack of sound or graphics, so why we're having this discussion in the first place? Probably because I got some of my own pee on ma face in a nice mist, right? (rhetorical question, so please don't answer)
first off, this isnt my opinion I am trying to satisfy but the infamous "new player" that doesnt want to play our game.
Secondly, I brought up graphics, because lets face it. The MUD competes with console and other pc games for time. They have glorious graphics, rich environments, soundtracks, sound effects. All these things that make lvling in these competing RPG's more of an experience than what is delivered by the MUD.
Saying "If it's a shortcoming, that this game doesn't have graphics or sounds on it's own, then you're playing wrong game", Is the exact WRONG attitude we need here. This is a shortcoming for this game, in the context of making lvling an entertaining experience that keeps people hooked until they hit 50 then can enjoy the end game. Lvling on the mud is tiresome and very very repetitive. If you are a new player you cant quest, you cant find groups, your just boned to spending an extensive amount of time staring at a prompt waiting for something to give so you can advance.
We level, we train, we do all this for what? The End game. Yet we create a barrier out of lvling. We require, REQUIRE (because not training is NOT an option, if you ever want to win.) you to either spend hours upon hours hitting the same command over and over OR write scripts and run those for hours and hours.
All this has to be endured before reaching the "fun part". I tell you now, with all the competition out there, games competing for our time, lvling in the mud will NOT hold new players attention span long enough for them to reach and enjoy the peak. This genre was born alone, there was no real competition for MUDS for decades. Now though, RPG and MMORPG's, fill the same niche, and frankly are better at hooking new players.
We require' date=' REQUIRE (because not training is NOT an option, if you ever want to win.)[/quote']
Training the way some of the Vets here train is absolutely stupid. I have trained from 1 prac, and not bothered training. I dont notice a huge difference either way really. Not enough to warrant 40 hours of training into one character who I won't even condeath.
try playing any caster, without mastering key spells. You wont win, you will lose concentration at key moments and die, horribly.
Also you have a bit of skill in chasing, running and the like. An individual new to the game needs every statistical advantage they can get to just keep pace with some of us who are very quick and have knowledge of every class in the game as our personal experience.
try playing any caster, without mastering key spells. You wont win, you will lose concentration at key moments and die, horribly.
Also you have a bit of skill in chasing, running and the like. An individual new to the game needs every statistical advantage they can get to just keep pace with some of us who are very quick and have knowledge of every class in the game as our personal experience.
I usually only master defenses as casters, the rest I let go up through use in PK and gear trips.
Now as far as chasing/running go, THAT is where new players need help. You can master all the skills you want, but if you can't run from miruvhor to marak blind your not going to keep up with me when Im running from a fight.
I usually only master defenses as casters, the rest I let go up through use in PK and gear trips.
Now as far as chasing/running go, THAT is where new players need help. You can master all the skills you want, but if you can't run from miruvhor to marak blind your not going to keep up with me when Im running from a fight.
whicch is why you can get by with less than mastered skills/spells.
Exactly. Meaning players don't have to train as much as they have to memorize the areas.
Which you learn areas via grinding levels, and getting suits based on level and gathering consumables, and exploring. That is really the most important factor. I became infinitely better at running and chasing once i learned the Underdark
The proponents of lvling/training need to have a meeting to get on the same page.
In one way you say that it is easy. Yet we talk about how you "read a book" while training.
On the other hand you argue that it is not neccesary, not a requirement, well then I say why do we have it at all?
You have here a game mechanic that the best way to deal with it, is to run the mud and set up a script while you read a book or watch a movie. FL, the best game to play while doing something else? I do not think thats the image we want.
I want you to consider, how much of the player base, what % at any given time, is locked away training. Or locked away leveling, and ask yourself, man what would it be like if those things were streamlined allowing full on end game participation from the entire base.
It would constantly be Halloween madness. Characters rolled just to get to 50 and run around trying to PK. I could only imagine the number of things that would get rolled. This would also allow OOC rings to function MUCH more efficiently.
"I need to do a gear run, roll a cleric"
"Ok, be ready in 5 minutes"
"This dick ninja just assassinated me, Make a thief"
"Man this ranger is wrecking me, Im gonna make a FG zerk"
The scenarios are endless, but the formula is the same. Not everyone has the attatchment to their chars that some of us develop. You dedicate yourself to one character at a time Kyzarius. Most people have 2-4 pinns they bounce back and forth between. You would have scenarios where someone could literally have every race/class at pinn at will, and I really do not believe that is a good thing.
I certainly wouldn't be against training being changed around in some way to make it more interactive. Perhaps something like changing it so that skills can be practiced to, oh, say 90% for the sake of argument, but improvement beyond that only happens when the skill is being used in PK?
Hell, most of the time I practice to 75 then master to 100 through PK and trips. Though that idea would seriously encourage alot more PVP interaction, but I just don't see goodies, and neutrals being able to go on a PK spree just because they want to train.
One thing I considered is this, why don't skill %'s drop based on how long it has been since we used it. If I mastered axes when I was 15 years old, and im now 210, wouldn't I have forgotten some things about them?
Though that idea would seriously encourage alot more PVP interaction' date=' but I just don't see goodies, and neutrals being able to go on a PK spree just because they want to train.[/quote']
A good point, though it could be done so that sparring in a challenge would raise it as well. Edit: Hell, it'd be a great recruiting tool for Warmaster.
Edit: Also, I'd expect that certain skills would probably have different thresholds of where they can be trained to - letting every warrior start with fourth attack at 90 or every ninja with assassinate at 90 is radically different from letting anyone with dirt kick have it at 90. We'd want to preserve the difficulty of mastering the more potent or esoteric skills to make doing so a worthwhile venture.
One thing I considered is this, why don't skill %'s drop based on how long it has been since we used it. If I mastered axes when I was 15 years old, and im now 210, wouldn't I have forgotten some things about them?
Are you thinking that they'd be able to retrain back up to full after losing it, or as a permanent loss? Edit: If the former, I think it'd end up rewarding powergamers and people with time to kill, but rewarding them the wrong way - by forcing people to spend more time training. Where I agree with Kyz is not that I want training removed, but I'm happy to see it revamped.
