I really would like to see this just gone. It serves no purpose anymore. It just gives people 10 hours of hell, almost guaranteed loss of eq, and mostly logging off versus people they should be fighting. Other than nostalgia, what purpose does it serve?
Warmaster inductee period
Are you suggested WM's are inducted at Member rank, or that the no-magic allowed is just revoked until you join Gladiator?
No restrictions til glad
Don't see this happening. The inductee period is meant to be grueling and this is one part that defines the cabal and also leads to the most damage output skills in the game later on. I also think WMs who constantly refuse fights should not be allowed to pass on to Member no matter the hours.
I just think making a concession to the fact it makes people log off should be seen as a bad mechanic. The rp behind it is good, the ideology behind it is excellent. The impact it has overall is to make the majority of inductees log vs vendettas, dks, and necros. I personally like a grueling test, but I can't deny the negative impact it has on playtime. That's my only reason really, I don't want tutu create scenarios where people log
I think being concerned about rare gear your wearing, especially as a WM inductee is pretty futile. This is a period where the odds are stacked against you and you want to worry more about keeping things you can always get again?
I would not really bother to gather any rares and focus on developing a non-rare set, work out your strategies against different opponents, etc. Much better use of your time. I mean the only thing you can lose during this period is items, you don't suffer life lost, so why add that extra pressure?
2 hours ago, Cephirus said:
I think being concerned about rare gear your wearing, especially as a WM inductee is pretty futile. This is a period where the odds are stacked against you and you want to worry more about keeping things you can always get again?
I would not really bother to gather any rares and focus on developing a non-rare set, work out your strategies against different opponents, etc. Much better use of your time. I mean the only thing you can lose during this period is items, you don't suffer life lost, so why add that extra pressure?
While I personally agree, a lot of people are completely ok getting decked, then just dodging anything that isn't a friendly challenge. The only people really embracing the inductee period are new players, which I dislike crucifying potential new faces. Pretty sure we recenetly had a new new player running as an inductee. They tried, but they also quit showing up before they got M.
I'm for shortening I-M-V ranking.
I'm for clearer guidelines from V-T.
shrug
On 9/19/2020 at 6:09 PM, 'tarako said:
I really would like to see this just gone. It serves no purpose anymore. It just gives people 10 hours of hell, almost guaranteed loss of eq, and mostly logging off versus people they should be fighting. Other than nostalgia, what purpose does it serve?
I see this as part of the point of being a Warmaster Inductee. Before, if you wanted to be a WM, you'd eschew all forms of magic from the start. Some wouldn't even group with a mage, and in doing so, the inductee period wasn't nearly as bad.
WM hopefuls these days are under no such restrictions, even those planning on going Gladiator. In doing so, people feel they are hamstrug far more than in the past, for 10-ish hours. When you're used to sanctuary and protection and all the other benefits of spells, then have to quit cold turkey, it's a shock and people don't like feeling gimped. Which in a sense this is, I admit.
Pre-Warmaster has evolved into a more relaxed standard before entry, and that's fine. It doesn't mean I think the inductee period should, too. In fact, quite the opposite. Maybe mention that when you join Battle you must attempt to reduce the magic you use before you enter. A kind of compromise from the way things were and the way they are now, maybe smooth the corner of that magic removal a bit. Those that go Gladiator will start in on the whole "self reliance" thing while Barbarians develop an appreciation for every advantage they can muster.
12 hours ago, 'tarako said:
While I personally agree [about the concern of rare gear], a lot of people are completely ok getting decked, then just dodging anything that isn't a friendly challenge. The only people really embracing the inductee period are new players, which I dislike crucifying potential new faces. Pretty sure we recenetly had a new new player running as an inductee. They tried, but they also quit showing up before they got M.
I think those that get decked and avoid anything that isn't a friendly challenge should be met with with the concequences of thier actions. But I'm in no position to dictate how these people act.
The fact that the primary people who embrace the inductee period are newbies is sad. You embrace the inductee period of Knight and Savant, why not WM? "It's hard because I lose magic, specifically sanctuary" I hear you say.
:cry:
See above. You don't like it because it's an abrupt change and you feel you can't compete on the level you want to without your spells. I can understand that. But you're not going to have all your spells active all the time. This is merely a reminder (and exercise) in how to cope and fight without these abilities.
10 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said:
I'm for shortening I-M-V ranking.
I don't like this. Staff already does a lot to make the game quicker to get to 50, I don't think this aspect should applied so people can get their peak faster.
There's nothing wrong with slowing some things down. Which isn't to say that I want longer times at I, M and V. I mean, it already takes me the better part of a week to get to the next promotion when some people here would go from application to V in less than a week.
Give WM I the same loot protection as moderates and maybe it wouldn't be as painful? Just a thought.
Being effectively immortal (deaths don't count toward total) isn't enough?
It's only equipment. You'll get it back.
A lot of people dont see it that way.
I mean consider that a subset of players give up 2/3 of their lives for CP gain & quick training, the currency value on a few free lives isn't very high.
Also, I have very very seldom seen a WM Inductee getting heavily looted unless he decked himself out in the best in slot gear before joining WM. So get your one-time quest item after the inductee period, get good but not top-in slot gear. Or just determine there will be no looting whatsoever before agreeing to a challenge. Most people keep to such agreements.
In a lot of cases, Savants in the past would also use their best judgement in who they killed based on their own interactions with a character, so there were times when both Savant and Warmaster were online at the same time with 0 altercations with PK because those individuals recognized it being possible issues of pushing new players away. Just because they are at war doesn't mean that they can't speak to one another, and it gives someone more insight into who the other person is, and give a fresh breath of air that didn't involve violence unless provoked. Vendetta != brutal war 24/7 after all, PK is only a very small part of the game.
I wouldn't mind seeing them only wait 5 hours instead of 11 as they do now. It could be either the amount of challenges now to get to Member and 5 hour wait, or even once you reach the number of challenges to be promoted you could skip the timer altogether and get bumped to Member.
If you're looting an Inductee every time they are killed, it's likely that you yourself are part of the problem rather than the solution too. Unless they're very well decked out, I think at best I have taken one or two things from 1 Inductee in the last 20 years, and that's only because it was something better than I had. I don't even loot now If I'm lucky to land a kill, not even gold since it's easy to gain unless it's a bounty that was set at the minimum, and even then that's roughly 20-50k depending on the Player.
Maybe any DK or Crusader who accepts challenges with Warmaster should gain a benefit from winning as well. This encourages them to be more willing to build a relationship with one another if they wanted to passed that easy to PK stage, and have it only be like 50% of a normal gain had you killed them, or even 25% because of fewer players online. It would keep true newbies playing without wanting to quit because all they do is die normally.
20 minutes ago, Tantangel said:
In a lot of cases, Savants in the past would also use their best judgement in who they killed based on their own interactions with a character, so there were times when both Savant and Warmaster were online at the same time with 0 altercations with PK because those individuals recognized it being possible issues of pushing new players away. Just because they are at war doesn't mean that they can't speak to one another, and it gives someone more insight into who the other person is, and give a fresh breath of air that didn't involve violence unless provoked. Vendetta != brutal war 24/7 after all, PK is only a very small part of the game.
I have a hard time with this. Unless you're a diplomat, you don't chit chat with the enemy. But I see the importance of not driving players away.
Would it be possible to move the test period to the clan? I love the idea of them giving up magic for a while - makes me nostalgic for 1.0. (No magic. No gates. Period.) But I don't understand, inducting someone, stripping them of a lot of power, and then sending them into battle. Hell, the 1st 3 or 4 levels don't make any sense to me.
Again, I like the idea of a "grueling test". But why is the test after they've been accepted? I would think that order is reversed.
On 9/21/2020 at 10:47 AM, Kassieti said:
Being effectively immortal
!?! Isn't that bad RP? Aren't we supposed to expect each death to be permanent and act as such?
On 9/21/2020 at 6:50 AM, Magick said:
Before, if you wanted to be a WM, you'd eschew all forms of magic from the start. Some wouldn't even group with a mage, and in doing so, the inductee period wasn't nearly as bad.
Before, there wasn't an inductee period. Your options were:
- not in
- in
- Elder
- Leader
I remember a time when joining a cabal was a big deal and there were quite a few non-cabaled characters running around at 50, now it is just an accepted expectation that your character will join some cabal and every character does. I think the truth is that we've "let the djinni out of the bottle" on a few things that unfortunately make going back further detrimental to the game. For instance, I think the ability to get to 50 and master skills/spells is actually to fast. It takes away from player investment in the character. However, to change that now would cause tremendous uproar and likely some players deciding to no longer play, which is the opposite direction we want things to go in.
@myrek had an interesting point about the seemingly reverse logic of the inductee period and not using magic. From an operational standpoint, it makes sense, because you don't have to have Imm's checking in on the character to ensure they aren't using magic, etc. Although, should a Barbarian also have to go through that, even though their outlook is different and they embrace the utilization of magic or anything else that provides them a combat advantage?
Perhaps they should choose which sub-cabal they want to join initially and if they choose Glad, get the no Magic and life protection, Barbs are excluded.
1 hour ago, myrek said:
!?! Isn't that bad RP? Aren't we supposed to expect each death to be permanent and act as such?
There's a difference between throwing your lives away without regard to anything and trying to stay alive and the times you do manage to die (because let's face it, you will), you take it with grace while it doesn't count toward your overall death count.
Edited
@Kassieti, I think I see how you meant it. My comment was in response to a more character-centric interpretation.
That said, I don't think I'm wrong. Where are cabals balanced? Vet? Trusted? An Inductee is going to have a hell of a time surviving against Vets w/o handicapping them further.
While I have no problem with the grueling WM inductee period, it is how it is grueling that makes it the most difficult. No detect invis? Anyone can buy a potion of invisibility and spring in on you whenever they want. No sanctuary isn't such a huge deal unless you are on a vuln race. You don't learn much in sudden death matches. There is a reason WM inductees have always been Malform fodder. I wouldn't be surprised if crusaders didn't do it as well. Necromancers I've also seen do it to gain a good number of souls to soul tap.
Then, some classes are hurt more than others. A ranger can just stay in camo. A monk (A class that must prepare for each oponent differently) almost has to stay in buddha, in which case you don't learn much about timing and using your skills. In a game where someone can take you from 100% to dead in a matter of rounds or charge/rage/bodyslam, it is harder to learn something about actual combat during the time period if you are new. What is teaches you now is how to accept that you are going to die. That's fine. But it doesn't teach you really how not to die in this current game.
I think it would be a better scenario to give them no access to rares at all and give them two things: Some form of sanctuary and detect invis so that not everyone has initiative. Even no flight is a killer against a lot of classes.
Edited