Herald EQ

Over the years of playing, some of the biggest issues people have with Herald isn't so much as how strong they are as to how much EQ they tend to be hording that could be better put to use, a phrase used by PK oriented players, because it only hinders them. In reality choosing something not rare can also hurt the ability of a character or class in general by not being nearly as effective, and the same can be said of Merchant. If you don't think so, you probably will only be pointing out some very specific items IG you can grab that aren't bad, but in a lot of cases they still do not compare. It can be the difference between killing something in 10 minutes and 20 minutes depending on the EQ you're seeking. I'm sure many people will say to cry them a river, but this would at least help with a lack of rares as it could easily eliminate the need for them to get any of it over time. I'm not saying give it away, so stick with me on it at least.

Church has proven we can have Cabal EQ enough to limit the rares needed to stay in the game, and Crusaders have proven that EQ still isn't game breaking mechanics either. There's always going to be the very few exceptions where someone will be able to maximize everything to the point they're unstoppable or at least very close, but you're talking about a non PK Cabal versus PK classes and other PK Cabals too. So I would like to propose Herald EQ be tweaked to better fit them so it not only benefits the character in that Cabal, but also everyone else. Instead of ranks to 'upgrade' armor like in Church, we start using RP points instead. This also means the RP Cabal has more uses for RP points as well. Some may point out the RP items you can apply for, but for such a steep price it also means most people may only make one or two personalized items at best, but the suggestion is to progress it in a way that it offers at the very least similar EQ as Rares/Uniques offer without the need to take them from someone else overall.

Proposal:

So lets make it so that Heralds can purchase their own EQ from their own Cabal with the exception of lets say rings, wrists, and necks. Each piece can be upgraded for 5-10RP points for a maximum of 7 points. The difference between this EQ and the ones you can purchase through Imms, it's not owner only, just Herald only and it'll have base stats for AC of -5 or -10 and it'll increase by -1 AC after each upgrade is applied. Each piece will cost you initially 25RP points which means for a full upgrade, you're looking at 60RP points to max it out, but no pretty color, no owner only, and decent stats that can be applied depending on which upgrade level of choosing. For kicks, add in 'socketable' as the final upgrade option so you can add in a non rare armor socket. For a full set that would be roughly 660 RP points (1045 RP points if it is 10 RP required to upgrade) which means in order for a person to be completely dependent upon their Herald EQ and no Rare EQ, they still will have to have some sort of RP enough that they'll actually get enough RP to purchase it all.

Each piece will be burnproof so it can't just go poof, which means no need to really replace them with something else, and since you're free to choose which upgrades apply, you can use them to boost any stats you wish based on the class you're playing. With a base AC of -5, maxed out it will be -12, or -17 depending on which base value is placed upon them. If it's wished to be made that only certain upgrades can be made based on your status in the Cabal, that's fine as well, but they should not be required to be Leader to get them all unless attaining Leader of Herald is actually viable since it's not often anyone is actually named a Leader. I believe the last one was Grebit which was like nearly 3 years ago now if I'm not mistaken. Add in weapons if you'd like as well. 50 RP points as a base, each with up to 5 upgrades at 20 RP per upgrade for different things, or a variable cost if purchasing upgrades for something specific like a proc. A weapon can only use one proc, and can have flags applied to it like noremove for a single upgrade.

This isn't something to make it so they are unkillable, but more so to make them the ideal travel companions more than they already can be, and by letting them not have to worry about being told they're wearing too many nice things so they have to either strip themselves or be stripped whether through Imm intervention or Bounties. It really just benefits players all around, and it could easily be made so that Heralds have a lower rare count limit than anyone else too so that they have to stick to wearing things that aren't rare. Limit their total to 6. Why 6? Because wrists, neck, and fingers are both two armor slots adding up to 6 in all. Since 3 of their artifacts that are a must are rare, that leaves them with 3 more they can use for whatever they wished. It gives them a little bit of a fresh breath in terms of change, it gives players more rares at their disposal, and forces the RP requirements of the game by having them use RP points to upgrade their wares. Sure it will be a slow going change since not everyone will have a ton of RP to spend in their first 100 hours of their characters life, but it will over time and generate further interest into the Cabal overall.

Thoughts?

I'm not really sure how to digest this proposal. If Heralds can get better equipment without using RP points, would they simply not grab those pieces and use their RP points for other things? Like in your suggestion, what would a good chest piece look like? Could they put spelllvl on face? Would you really invest 660-1045 RP points into gear as a cabal perk? Like what? I think any form of cabal bonuses should not rely on RP points. There's already people struggling to get the necklace, perks, and spells they need, and there's not a massive amount of Heralds in the game hoarding equipment.

On a tangentially related note:

I'd really like for the cabal shops to offer super competitive gear in their slots (i.e the Church shop - not the Church unique upgradable gear). I'm not saying the tabard should be the standard for equipment, but on my last Savant I played there wasn't really any Savant only item that I just wanted to wear.

If each cabal had items comparable to level 50 uniques for 3-4 slots (ideally different slots for different cabals), that would put a lot more rares into circulation. Now, not every class benefits from every stat, so depending on whether you are a melee or a caster you would still probably not wear all the items, but it's just something to consider. If nothing else, review the items in the cabal shops, modify them to make them good enough that in they would rarely be replaced. The Savant gear, the Nexus belt, the Tribunal floaters (these should not be align-restricted imo), and some of the Knight pieces just feel like they could benefit from a facelift.

There's a nonrare chest piece that's practically as good as most cabal armour:

Object 'order platemail plate mail' is type armor, material godforged steel.

Extra flags: inventory burnproof.

Weight is 15, value is 1000, level is 50.

Armor class is 15 pierce, 15 bash, 15 slash, and 10 vs. magic.

Affects hitroll by 2.

Affects damroll by 3.

Affects movegain by 2.

Affects managain by 2.

Affects hitgain by 2.

You have a feeling only a Tribunal can use it.

You have a vague feeling this item can be used somehow.

Object 'holy full fullplate plate blessed bless' is type armor, material godforged steel.

Extra flags: glow bless inventory burnproof.

Weight is 15, value is 900, level is 50.

Armor class is 15 pierce, 15 bash, 15 slash, and 10 vs. magic.

Affects hitroll by 2.

Affects damroll by 2.

Affects hp by 20.

Affects mana by 20.

Affects savingspell by -2.

You have a feeling only a Knight can use it.

Object 'gothic armor suit anciet plate' is type armor, material Steel.

Extra flags: burnproof.

Weight is 50, value is 25000, level is 50.

Armor class is 15 pierce, 16 bash, 15 slash, and 14 vs. magic.

Affects dex by -1.

Affects damroll by 2.

Affects ac by -10.

Affects hp by 15.

Affects savingspell by 1.

Affects hitroll by 2.

So instead of Heralds buying equipment for RP points, what if all the cabals had items that were seriously competitive in their slots until you went for very specific high tier EQ pieces to replace them.

Without giving away too much detail, the "secret feature" of Knight EQ are awesome and I'd love to see the same elsewhere. Wearing one piece it might not be worth it, the more you wear, the bettery they get. This way they don't contribute to a god suit as much, but are very valuable when you are an underdog and constantly wearing cabal eq.

I think what is being suggested basically results in outsourcing custom rp eq from the imms to the players. Heralds could make sense for this, but so could Merchant. I like herald better though as it is open to all aligns and are likely to be more thoughtful and heralds do need some extra flare. RPwise, it could make sense, because the heralds are finally using their vast collecion of secret knowledge, rather than merely storing/keeping it. To be honest, also, heralds need something extra. Having artifacts at Trusted is annoying because its the only "real" cabal specific ability they have. 

I'd add something, though...which might be controversial...for 4x the total rp spent on item (5x in total), you can make an item not herald only and gift it to someone outside of herald. These items become like "Kreyis" super rare, super hard to find, get traded around...eventually get destroyed or sarificed, but can be true unique pieces of armor. So you spen 60 rp points to build something, you could spend another 240 rp points (300 total) to create a new item and then insert it into circulation. Imms can look at created items, tone them or...the ones that work, or when the herald dies, could become items in the real mud. I think at 300 rp points, there would be so few going in that the imms could probably keep a handle on it.

Yeah. Investing hundreds of RP points on someone else's character. 😂

If you are expecting someone to spend 300 RP points to remove a single item from circulation, I can't help but feel you creating a solution that doesn't solve the perceived problem.

paying RP to remove an item from circulation?

No, defiitely not imagining that. But I'd pay RP on my characters to put one into circulation. To create a custom item that I see out in the world, watch other people using, knowing I created it. Whether or not 300 is the right number is hard for me to say, because I don't know how much other people accumulate, but it should be sufficiently high as to be considered a serious expenditure.

@Lexi I used to be of the opinion that it was hard to get RP points, but generally this isn't as truthful as I originally thought it to have been. It can be very easy to gain them, it just depends on your dedication as a player. Heralds also get 1 or 2 RP points for redistributing notes sent to them so that everyone can read them too, so in their case, gaining RP points is even easier.

Quote

 155 :      15 : rp  :  an Immortal : 02/14/2020 06:30:42 : [reason hidden]

  156 :       2 : rp  :  an Immortal : 02/24/2020 22:41:34 : Note: Round I - Ripuliina against Wofgar

Just as examples. I don't know what the hidden reason was for, but I assume it was for an RP log of sorts that happened at that time or perhaps just before it even.

Also, you can gain over halfway to the point of getting an RP necklace through quests alone and if you aren't a qrace/qclass, you don't need a minimum kept limit to keep the character so you can splurge once you hit 100. You don't need to empower it as it's already ownered, and if you want to empower it, that's only 30 more points to earn. If you write notes, journals, or submit RP logs, getting 30 more is maybe a weeks worth of work? After all, if you're RPing as is, if you have something of interest to submit, just use the replay command and it takes out almost any need to edit unless it goes on for a long period of time, in which case you'll have to edit at least a little bit.

The proposal overall isn't to make it so that it is overly strong, it's to give it a facelift to make it more interesting than before. It also means giving some items that have very limited items a way to be more in circulation than before. Remember that some items only have 1 or 2 of them, and if a Herald has one of them, that means only 1 or none are in circulation. And sometimes those items are what several people are seeking. A Herald can easily just put up diplomacy meaning they have to be bountied to have it removed. If there are no Syndicates around, then they aren't likely to take their head and someone is missing out on an item they may be wanting (assuming they didn't ask kindly for it to begin with or were shot down with their offer). There's plenty of reasons why this would make more sense than the current model. Another large factor is that it means no two items may be exactly alike from one character to the next as you would have complete control over how it is upgraded. If +spell level is a thing that an individual wants, it should either be the final upgrade, or worth two upgrade points at the very least in order to do so. Remember this isn't so a person can become unstoppable so they can PK anyone too. This is to make it so that they can wear non rare EQ that ultimately removes the need to bounty a Herald for OOC reasons and stimulates further RP demands in a game where RP is supposed to be required.

I've seen only a handful of Characters with high RP points, and they're usually PK oriented characters with some pretty solid RP background as well. They are usually long lived too and it tells me that they don't really spend their RP points on anything much after they get their RP necklace. Cabal items can be purchased with CPs which is fine, but there hits a point where even CPs don't mean anything anymore and you can't really do much with them unless you have Cabal skills/spells that burn through them quickly. Is that what RP points will eventually become? Glorified CPs that just get stockpiled because you've already got the edge you needed and your necklace, and everything else just doesn't seem appealing. Start a world RP plot that ultimately nets you more RP than you spent to start it, or get sucked into one that grants you even more but now you've got nothing to spend it on that is appealing? This gives more options, not just to the player, but to the Cabal specifically while also letting other people be able to get items that may be being hoarded by those individuals in Herald.

I've spent ~300 RP points on one character. Two edges, an upgraded necklace, an RP pet, and a few trains for languages. The RP plots I was keen on starting were shot down or ignored because of the topics or other reasons entirely. It only made me choose to back off from ever coming up with another because it's not worth brainstorming to me if it's dismissed entirely. I offered to spend all of them on having Newbies be given Merchant like wares as either a quest, purchased items, or even a halfway suit for if Merchants weren't around which was also dismissed. Whether that was because other things came up I couldn't say, but most of those conversations were usually dropped at some point, usually ending with me giving up on pushing the topic further, sometimes because I was shut down on it by IMPs. That's not a huge deal for me really since shit happens and I'm not the only one who plays this game so I can understand differing opinions on things and I know yours is at least slightly different than my own.

Outside of the purpose of helping more Rare and Unique items go into circulation, this offers a means to let Heralds stand out from other Cabals. People already know they get Artifacts that can be bad ass, but a majority of them suck ass so it can go stale pretty quickly. You never use any others outside of perhaps 5, which definitely helps you if you're trying to learn or relearn the game and its maps, but it does very little for making you want to stick around. In most cases a Herald will stick around for a month or two in Herald, but many drop like flies in the first 30 days. This gives them the opportunity to not just find more joy in it, but also thrive by wanting to seek out more secrets, more RP, and be able to add a little more to the game overall without having to impede the progress of other characters and players.

On average between quests and RP, I usually gain between 250-300 RP points for a character that lasts 200 hours. That's assuming I write a history for them, write a few journals, and maybe an RP session thrown in. Those are usually my more serious characters though, so if I just want to test something out, chances are I get to about 150 RP points which gives me everything I would normally want anyways. Unless I want the warcry edge, then I may get that and a necklace but not upgrade it. I've got over 1400 though. Not enough to get a suit of RP armor that's owner only, but enough to give back maybe 4 rares into circulation, but also meaning when I'm trying not to hit the rare count hours so things I can't remove or uncurse means I now lose out on those RP items because maxed out they become rare as well. It defeats the purpose really and after having a note sent out by Anume a while back about rares and Herald, this is a logical step in the right direction to make it so they don't have those hard to find items and also limiting the amount they can hold. Also of the 6 artifacts that are used and are a staple, 4 of them are rare.

As far as other Cabals go though, a lot of them could definitely use a change or a few tweaks, including the Savant armor. I inquired about that once and was told they were fine as was, but really in that case only a couple items were of use and the rest had no purpose. Sometimes that was because it didn't suit the classes I was playing, but it was most often than not, there was always something better out there that would work for me so I seldom ever purchased the Cabal EQ. I think that's the case in many other Cabals as well, but aside from Merchant and Herald, other Cabals are far more PK focused which is why I suggested the RP armor only for Herald. They can rack it up quickly, where as other Cabals do not all the while being completely decked, practically unkillable in PK (after Trusted), and avoid PK far more easily. This just opens up a way to let people on an even playing field overall. With this method it also doesn't circumvent the personalized EQ because it may have basic stats and the upgrades, it wouldn't be owner only nor would they have any color added to them unless requested via application which could cost additional RP points to do so.

Altogether I believe it would do more good than bad to add in this stipulation to things as in the past it has been discussed about Herald wearing decked out items, but it was always pushed off. This would appease more people than it would ever hurt and give you the most bang for your buck overall. It could even be tweaked down the road if it proved to be too much. Considering Crusaders, Psi, and Invoker can greatly improve some of the armors if they join, I'd suggest to add a psienhance flag on them and make them so they cannot be improved by enchanting or modifying either. I'd be interested to know what Imms think, more specifically though @Lloth for being the head builder, and @Kassieti for being the Herald Imm to see if it's even possible that this could be a solution to their rare hording traits. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but compromise would be a beautiful thing too if it is not.

head explodes brain overload!

🤤

In seriousness, I think a better solution to this problem (and it is an issue in my eyes) is to give heralds a larger and more robust selection of cabal gear that can be purchased using cabal points.

Their items need to be on tier with rare items and maybe a unique equivalent or two (eq point system). That way Heralds don't need to horde rare items. I have wanted this for years and even brought it up not long ago to the staff.

Every Herald I have had has wanted this same thing.  Because someone can force PK no matter how you try to RP out of it, it happens.  To ask a Herald to not wear rares is to ask them to be fodder.  I had many DK's come for a supposedly easy kill.  I've been bountied for being good aligned and a Herald.  I'd argue that Heralds don't need offensive armor, but defensive.  Herald offense is already superb regardless of the class.

I brought up making herald eq on par with top tier eq as well for the same reasons. And while you COULD kill a herald, it would be a huge mistake. Primarily because you cant deal enough damage to overcome those artifacts without a laglock. Second reason is after you attack, they have a green light for retribution, third reason is Heralds are generally incredibly helpful/important characters to begin with. I dont know that I could ever willingly kill one just to try to loot them. It just isn't really something most players would be willing to do. It is more like you see them in the eq, and think welp that eq is gone til the character is gone.

Giving them options like Church would be an awesome idea. Frankly I think with some fine tuning to lower the power level for cabals with cabal skills the system for church eq should be implemented for most cabals. This way cabal eq will be useful for all cabaled chars in that cabal.

I will post more later, but the one thing I immediately want to say is this:

There will be no other cabal that get cabal eq that is at or near the strength of Church cabal eq. Even non-pk cabals.