Charmed pets for DKs

I don't know exactly what has changed in the last 5 years, but having a chat to people and I have heard that even vampires have had a visit by the gimp stick. Why, I don't really know, I used to be able to own decked vampires with very little gear on even non-giant warriors. They would probably only really have 3 or so skills that I'd call super, some of these only applicable in certain situations or have reasonably long cooldowns. Apart from this, they are much like a ranger. Just without camo, pets, archery, track, herb, dual parry and with the hugest vulnerability on earth (as long with a regular vuln) to boot.

Vampires are still pretty buff. With a spell for every class, well almost.

If they get the drop on you it can be deadly. Especially if you lack saves.

For example the bite thing is ridicule if you are a communer.

But if you manage to damage them enough to sent them running, they can just disappear and you will be at difficulties at tracking them down.

"I used to be able to own decked vampires with very little gear on even non-giant warriors"

This reminds me the story of the old Warrior on mithrill with a staff killing a decked Vampire.

Guess what, that is the best Vamp fighting combo.

Guess what' date=' that is the best Vamp fighting combo.[/quote']

I disagree. There is a MUCH better combo for Vampire killing.

OK small correction:

Warriors for actually killing the Vampire.

Some other classes can send him packing faster.

Hum... let me guess, you are going to say Necromancer with full travens ?

Tassin, I'm calling you (and anyone else who said they've gotten assassinations in 3-4 ticks) out.

I've played my fair share of falcon eye ninjas as well, and that's a flat out lie. With study MASTERED it takes at least 4-5 ticks to actually do the studying. It takes another 7-8 ticks of meditation to get their soul bearing your mark. That means that your opponent has to be staying in the same area, or letting you track them through areas without noticing, for between 11 and 13 ticks, on AVERAGE - that means, assuming that you get the top study on every single tick. 11-13 ticks is approximately 7-8 minutes in game. I don't know if you realize it, but if you're not actively involved in doing something (hence the only reason you should be sitting around and letting a ninja study you), 7-8 minutes is a LONG time. If you get studied after sitting somewhere for that long, you deserve to get assassinated.

Tassin, Inmek did his job well, but he certainly was not the best ninja to ever grace Aabahran's presence. Aulian, Dumela was a good ranger, but the fact that you got assassinated by a well-played ninja doesn't make it overpowered. I can tell you from what I recall that Rykar probably had, on average, 60+ hitroll at any given time. And knowing that it was a good, smart player, they were probably VERY prepared for the situation.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. As much as I hate getting assassinated, assassinate is not an overpowered skill. Falcon Eye is not an overpowered ninja lore. Good assassinate ninjas are few and far between, and it's been a long, LONG time since the playerbase had to legitimately fear a ninja.

Stay on your toes, always be prepared, and keep moving, and assassinations won't be a problem.

Nerfing is an awful, vicious circle. I'm all for appropriate change, but when it comes to broad brush gimping of classes theres just no end to the problems you can find and wack out. Through all the characters I've played (sadly enough probably close to 40 pins over the years), I've been assassinated less than 5 times. It is avoidable.

I'm fairly against gimping rangers and ninjas, and Ive never played either of them (and don't plan on it...although....)

I agree with Bali. :eek:

I'm just not seeing how you guys are figuring the things you are figuring. The only possibly acceptable change in my eyes would be losing study upon logout. Only thing.

Assassinate is supposed to be the 'reset' button for rares. By losing study on log out, it would be darn near impossible to kill decked (and more importantly SMART) characters. By gaining a little bit every day, that player is still at risk.

If it was' date=' a-g would still be living with his first wife Ted, who eats cheetos naked in his living room/kitchen while watching a-g do the dishes in a thong.[/quote']

Do not tempt me to post a picture...

as to nerfing being a vicious cycle: It's better than bumping everyone up when one or two are overpowered (I am not saying so is the case in this dicussion). If one or two people are overpowered, bumping everyone else up creates the problem that the rest of the game is unbalanced to the classes... when it was two classes to the game. So, what you've got is 16 classes all overpowered to the mobs/quests that are about, so you bump them up. And what happens? Everyone cries that it's harder for them to kill the things it suddenly got easier to kill. So you bump them up again, and then the others cry, so they get bumped... and then... crap... now everyone is downing adeptus and gear and winter wearing a practice dagger and a fur vest like they're in some james bond movie... so the mobs get bumped and then....

If you nerf one or two issues, well- those people cry because they have to get better but... well... one or two people (compared to sixteen) cry but they will get over when someone comes along and shows them it is still possible to play their class effectively and dangerously.

Also, I agree with Bali. That's the science I was looking for but didn't have. He might get a picture in his Inbox... I'm still not sure if that is a pun or not.

a-g

Assassinate is not really that OP. I think it can be a bit annoying yes. Like one thing I do not agree with is being able to assassinate someone while they are wide awake, and not blind in broad daylight WHILE THEY ARE FIGHTING YOU. That is a bit too much in my opinion. Getting the study is not OP at all. It takes several ninjas to get studying and assassinating down to an applicable, useful medium. I do not agree that assassinating easily should take so little hitroll ( you can gain the minimum hitroll in next to nothing and some herbs. Seriously.) but as far as the skill goes it is nto bad. I have been assassinated 3 or 4 times. That is about once every 2 years. So I am not really all that worried about the skill being OP.

Minotaur charge though.....................

Only thing that isn't true in Evangelions post is that you ave to be in the same area as the victim you studied to meditate over your studies.

So you only need 4-5 ticks of studying, then you can high tail it somewhere else and let the meditation happen.

Also, if you engage a ninja who is trying to openly study you in a non hiding area, he will forget everything he hasnt meditated on.

So if you fear a ninja, go somewhere he cannot hide, preferably an area deeper than 7 rooms, then the pop in at the end of tick ploy for a quick study won't work.

I miss back in 1.0, when assassinate chance was independent of hitroll, and study range was twice as many rooms as it is now... those were the days.

I also, have to agree with Bali here.

Dey

Ah, Evangelion. Thank you for reinforcing our point. It takes 4-5 ticks for a full study.

Meditation was NEVER part of the equation. Nor should it be. The fact that you can get a "Bob's soul bears your mark" in only 4-5 ticks is insane! And who says you have to meditate in the same area? That is just stupid. Study them, meditate, then next time you see them? Assassinate! Not difficult at all.

Ninjas are supposed to circulate rares but what about hoarding rares? Either take away some of their buff melee ability or take away their easy 1 hit kill. Why do they get best of both worlds?

And Pali. In 1.0 it never took 4-5 ticks for a study. It was a long process. It actually took skill to track someone over a period of time to study them and even without a minimum hitroll, you would still miss more oft than you would these days.

I thought AC was supposed to be taken into account? -450 ac should require a significant amount of hitroll. I say 70 at least. Any amount below 70 hitroll should lessen the chance of assassinate by 5%

You have 65 hitroll and they have -450 ac? -25% chance that you will succeed. (This is still what, a 70% chance for success? Good odds really. Especially since a giant warrior won't be having -450 ac so no bashlock worries)

I got assassinated while wide awake and could see vs over 750 ac. I felt screwed.

Thats probably coz you got screwed

You, however, add no extra notches to your bunkbed.

a-g

And Pali. In 1.0 it never took 4-5 ticks for a study. It was a long process. It actually took skill to track someone over a period of time to study them and even without a minimum hitroll' date=' you would still miss more oft than you would these days.[/quote']

You're right that studying was a longer process in that Falcon Eye didn't exist... but on the other hand, you could study for literally twice as many rooms and you could study people in different areas and without direct line of sight (can't remember if that's still in or not), and as I said hitroll wasn't a factor in actually landing the kill like it is now (I'm not even sure how much being asleep vs awake mattered). I killed DOZENS of wide awake people when wearing nothing but a pair of commoner's longswords on Galadran.

Yes, you can get a study faster now... but making sure you aren't being studied, except in certain situations, is overall WAY easier than it used to be. I didn't at first, but now after thinking about it, I kind of like this change... it requires ninjas to take chances to get studies, and rewards them for doing it well.

Ninjas have to take 0 chances for an assassinate.

You only need to have them in your line of sight for 4-5 ticks. It doesn't even matter if they are consecutive or not.

And how often do falcon eye assassins miss? Hitroll or not, it is incredible. AC was supposed to matter if I remember correctly. It does not show with what I've seen.

A wide awake asssassinate in superior eq should not be an easy feat. Right now? It is.

insert 'flavor of the month' OP remark here

I think some of you overestimate the role that hitroll plays in an assassinate. Hitroll is only one of a lot of factors, and not necessarily meant to be the most prominent one.