Double Round Auto Assists.

The fix to wimpy sounds like reworking it entirely as a new skill/command instead of whatever it that’s tapping into the pulse system of the code

Isn’t this about double rounds? I can make wimpy not fire in update_char and only have it fire in fight rounds. But then wimpy is suddenly useless.

Some of us don't think it would break wimpy, but just make it behave like an automatic flee.

And yes this is about double rounds, but the two are interconnected since the only way to avoid these double rounds right now is by using wimpy.

So it sort of feels like one "broken" mechanic is being used to avoid another "broken" mechanic.

Obviously it is a complex issue from a code standpoint with pulses etc...

Heh.

Wimpy can at least be impacted without major recoding though.  Just change the Wimpy boundary dramatically.  Given that it is supposed to be a life saving technique, not a tactical choice - i'd recommend 10% of Max health

I just don't get the big divide here on how it works. Half the players think it should not make you flee mid round, or even mid spell, the other half think this is totally acceptable.

I think wimpy just needs to be a flat percentage that is either toggled on or off.  I think right now you can set wimpy to quite a high percentage of HP...possibly around 40%?  @Erelei correct me if I'm wrong.  If wimpy is truly meant to be a "life saver" and not an "exploitable PK feature", then let's lower the wimpy cap to something like 12% of HP.  No setting it, it's just set at 12% and either on or off.

You can set it at 50% or lower

From my un-knowledgeable plethora of old code and game mechanics the double round can be easily fixed without tampering with the game pulses or basic mechanics of ROM, however this is just the opinion of someone who has no idea how far advanced the FL code of today is.

That being said:... In (if the assist code is old) check_assist REPLACE the call to "multi_hit (rch,victim,TYPE_UNDEFINED)" with "set_fighting( rch, victim)", this should remove the extra 3-4-5-6 attacks provided by multi_hit and properly join combat the next round.

Im probably wrong, I know nothing, please dont ban me for trying to help.

UC

Wimpy is 'supposed' to kick in mid round, thats how it was designed. If you guys want wimpy changed because you cant get enough kills then make it a toggle-able feature that only checks 25% or whatever. Regardless, I just had someone do over 500 damage to me within 2 rounds 'mid combat' and my wimpy didnt kick in, when people are dealing this much damage I think wimpy should kick in MORE.

Proposed change? Someone does *** damage to you while less than 30% hp should kick in your wimpy if its ON, remove the preset percentages.

UC

In the end though any adjustments to wimpy are moot in the context of the issue I am highlighting.  

This is a major contributor to CC's getting completely stomped.  Yet we want to discuss wimpy.  Because mages managing to somehow get away is to much.  

At least we have a consensus on the double damage being a, one sided in who it benefits, and b an exploitable function of combat that the mud is not really balanced around.

Remove the current wimpy. Make it a skill, give it to everyone, and allow a chance to fail. It’s still here and can save you or it could not and you now have lag from a failed file attempt. Add a cooldown I it’s not abused over and over. Risk vs reward.

Remove double rounds entirely.

I could be totally wrong here but I always thought wimpy was intended to save people from dangerous PvE situations. I don't think it was ever intended to be used as a PvP tool.

I personally never use it, be it on a melee or caster. I feel like it is cheating. I know it is not, and clearly from the facts coming through on this thread it is not broken and is working as intended. That being said I think it is as equally unfair as the double rounds. I am pro removing both, but that is just my opinion.

I have two suggestions for wimpy:

1. Make it only work when disconnected from the MUD as a way to save you from mobdeaths on lagging out.

and/or

2.  Disable it at rank 10.

Wimpy is a mechanic to keep newbies from dying in fights because they don't know how to flee. That is why mobs don't chase when you wimpy flee, but they will if you flee via command. It has no real place in PK.

If you want to have a PK mechanic that puts you in a defensive posture and/or causes you to flee under circumstances, code it as a skill. Wimpy isn't that mechanic.

Autoassist double round:

This can be balanced nicely by not being a function of autoassist. The autoassist mechanic is not intended for creating double rounds. It was made as a convenience for fighting mobs as a group so every party member/charmie doesn't need to 'kill mob'. It shouldn't offer any advantage over a manual kill mob order as executed by a player.

This would mean single rounds during autoassist, not double.

However, if you want to maintain the 'pk mechanic' of a burst double round, you can set it up so that the double round only fires on the first round of a newly engaged opponent. That means if you murder someone with a pack of pets, you'll get a double round, but if you flee and return or rescue, you won't. You'd have to wait until the target is not engaged at all and THEN attack to get the double round again.

While doing the above is possible, the preferred method would be to wrap the mechanic as a skill. As a bonus, if it were a skill, you could stack all sorts of class/cabal mechanics on top of it.

Edit:

If you REALLY want to keep wimpy, make it a function of current HP, not total hp and make it high. If you take 50% of your remaining HP as damage in the round, it flees you without lag. Limit the min damage threshold so people can be killed. Again, would work much better as a skill.

1 hour ago, Kyzarius said:

This is a major contributor to CC's getting completely stomped.

You have this problem too? I was wondering why my last mage had 0-30 record. I am glad it's not just me.

2 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said:

If you guys want wimpy changed because you cant get enough kills...

Yep, I admit, that's exactly why I want wimpy changed. You read me like a book. Can't ever trick you. So perceptive.

Wimpy itself is not the problem.  The problem is with how high you can set it, meaning Kyzarius' characters get 50% more attempts to open rounds ;) 

So cap the high end and cap the amount it can be exploited.  Other than that, I see no problem with wimply personally.

Edit: I'd love to see the backlash if wimpy is changed and the undead wight is not.

4 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:

Wimpy itself is not the problem.  The problem is with how high you can set it, meaning Kyzarius' characters get 50% more attempts to open rounds ;) 

So cap the high end and cap the amount it can be exploited.  Other than that, I see no problem with wimply personally.

Edit: I'd love to see the backlash if wimpy is changed and the undead wight is not.

Are people lagged and wimpying? Cuz that would be a problem, otherwise they are probably typing flee or inputting a missed command when these wimpy flees kick in which in turn will lag them slightly in the aggressors favor.

3 hours ago, Erelei said:

I can make wimpy not fire in update_char and only have it fire in fight rounds. But then wimpy is suddenly useless.

Why is wimpy able to see your HP after every pulse though, and not after the round itself?

If we follow your logic, then "flee" is useless too, because if only fires after the round, right? Every skill is useless, because it fires after the round.

If wimpy was able to be set at like 5%, then I would understand, but considering it can be set at 50%, which is 600 HP of my last mage's HP pool, then imagine what kind of feat one must achieve in order to kill me, with me just leaning back and watching wimpy do it's work.

Take this round for example:

Quote

Amarylis: [===|===|===|==-]

(1051/1203hp 1414/1466m 457/474mv) [Exits: E W] (21703Ntl) (165938gold) (22time) (D)

Donovan's sting wounds you.

Donovan's sting wounds you.

You parry Donovan's attack.

Your fire shield injures Donovan.

A mask made of spider fangs writhes as a thin cloud of poison shoots forth! 

You feel momentarily ill, but it passes.

Your Firestorm maims a Lion's Pride fighter!

Your Firestorm hits Donovan.

Donovan dodges your attack.

Your smash misses Donovan.

You parry a Lion's Pride fighter's attack.

A Lion's Pride fighter's spear charge misses you.

A Lion's Pride fighter's spear charge injures you.

You parry a Lion's Pride fighter's attack.

Your fire shield devastates a Lion's Pride fighter!

A Lion's Pride fighter kicks dirt in your eyes!

A Lion's Pride fighter's kicked dirt scratches you.

You can't see a thing!

Your fire shield LACERATES someone!

Amarylis: [===|===|===|=--]

(996/1203hp 1414/1466m 457/474mv) [Exits: --- ] (21703Ntl) (165938gold) (22time) (D) c 'dispel magic'

You see Donovan here hitting for an average of wound. which is like 20 damage.

Imagine me beeing at 600 HP, him engaging me with murder, hittig me once for wound, my HP going to 580 and wimpy triggering. Then I sit and wait. He enters again, engages with murder, hits me for another wound, my HP goes to 560, wimpy triggers again. And so on. He has to do that a total of 30 times in order to kill me.

Considering murder has 1 round of lag, and one tick is rougly 8 rounds, he will need almost 4 ticks to kill me. Considering 1 ticks is ~30 seconds, dude will need almost 2 minutes real life time to kill me, with me doing absolutely nothing.

How does this make sense?

14 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:

Edit: I'd love to see the backlash if wimpy is changed and the undead wight is not.

what's wrong with the wight?

2 hours ago, Celerity said:

If you REALLY want to keep wimpy, make it a function of current HP, not total hp and make it high. If you take 50% of your remaining HP as damage in the round, it flees you without lag. Limit the min damage threshold so people can be killed. Again, would work much better as a skill.

I normally don't disagree with your suggestions but this one I absolutely disagree with.  You would be removing a mechanic of certain classes.  Thief backstab victim gets auto-flee 1round lag vs. thief's 2round backstab lag?  Invoker dispel + hellstream combo now gives victim auto-flee?  Melee charge catches opponent unsanc'd and they get a 1-round flee advatage?  It has to be based on total and set to a fixed amount so the attacker can change his opening command.