Just had a bit of a thought here. Since RP points are a fairly objective way of measuring RP impact (as good as we are likely to get anyways), and the limiting of quest class/race/cabal entry (even promotions?) is typically to make sure you have made a suitable RP investment, so how about using RP points to buy those things?
You can spend xxx RP points to buy your remort to psi, your cabal entry opportunity, or whatever. The staff is still in control because they award the RP points, but it is up to the player to allocate them to whatever purpose they have for their character.
There are some really good points to this that might solve some very persistent, difficult problems:
Objective -- Everyone pays the same amount of RP points. There can't be any accusations of favoritism or that x player had an easier time than y player. Everybody has made a (fairly) objectively equal investment to receive the same reward.
Balanced among staff members -- Since RP points can be awarded by many staff members and they are rewarded to all players, the personality of the staff and/or relationship to the player wouldn't factor into how quickly somebody got what they were seeking.
Measurable progress -- I know how close I am to earning xxx reward, and I know what I have to do to get it. No more RP directly specifically to garner the approving IMM's attention. No more timezone issues. No more waiting without knowing if you are getting anywhere or not. None of that.
More incentive to RP; more RP point sinks. Good behavior is rewarded with objectively faster progression.
Allows limited automated progression WITHOUT allowing trash (needs to spend effort/time to accumulate RP points from staff members) or favoritism (objective, doesn't rely on other players) problems in progression.
Not all characters have to be rp heavy to get into a cabal.
So the cabal entrance cost would not be high. Cabal promotions could be achieved normally or could be purchased. Provided requirements were met. Seems OK to me.
Why does there have to be a cost for cabal entrance at all lol?!?!
So, some people complain about small PK benefits being able to be purchased with RP points, and what's the answer? Make cabal entrance cost RP.
This whole suggestion is like putting oil in a fire.
Cabals are the endgame of FL, it should be open to everyone, no matter what. We should be removing obstacles from getting to the endgame, not creating even more!
I do agree with you, F0xx, about removing obstacles rather than creating them. I think Anume has made it very clear we won't be removing all obstacles, so we are going to have obstacles either way. It is thus a matter of how ambiguous you want the process to be and which set of obstacles are worse to you.
For example, a very ambiguous approach would be: Whenever the cabal imm judges you ready. <--- classic system
Less ambiguous: When you have done something (got a pk, 10 clan quests, level 50, 30 hours, whatever) and the cabal imm judges you ready. <--- current system, usually
Not ambiguous at all: When you meet the requirements, it is done.
I don't really mind how you define cabal entry requirements - they could be hours, rp points, whatever. As long as they are defined and the process clicks forward on its own. You can argue there shouldn't be any requirements, but that isn't going to work as per Anume's strong feelings on the topic.
The staff certainly has internal requirements, although they might be different by imm/cabal. I bet they are mostly fairly concrete (e.g. need a single PK), if not explicitly stated. Yet, they still want to make sure you aren't gaming the system and have made a time/effort investment. Since we can quantify that with RP points, I suggested those.
So, the question is...would this be better than now or not? We can't compare this idea to an ideal that we aren't going to get (no obstacles).
Just had a bit of a thought here. Since RP points are a fairly objective way of measuring RP impact (as good as we are likely to get anyways), and the limiting of quest class/race/cabal entry (even promotions?) is typically to make sure you have made a suitable RP investment, so how about using RP points to buy those things?
You can spend xxx RP points to buy your remort to psi, your cabal entry opportunity, or whatever. The staff is still in control because they award the RP points, but it is up to the player to allocate them to whatever purpose they have for their character.
There are some really good points to this that might solve some very persistent, difficult problems:
Objective -- Everyone pays the same amount of RP points. There can't be any accusations of favoritism or that x player had an easier time than y player. Everybody has made a (fairly) objectively equal investment to receive the same reward.
Balanced among staff members -- Since RP points can be awarded by many staff members and they are rewarded to all players, the personality of the staff and/or relationship to the player wouldn't factor into how quickly somebody got what they were seeking.
Measurable progress -- I know how close I am to earning xxx reward, and I know what I have to do to get it. No more RP directly specifically to garner the approving IMM's attention. No more timezone issues. No more waiting without knowing if you are getting anywhere or not. None of that.
More incentive to RP; more RP point sinks. Good behavior is rewarded with objectively faster progression.
Allows limited automated progression WITHOUT allowing trash (needs to spend effort/time to accumulate RP points from staff members) or favoritism (objective, doesn't rely on other players) problems in progression.
God @Celerity, if I didn't think you'd eat me like a praying mantis I'd ask you to marry me.
Horray for the beginings of a structured, logical and thought out idea or even better put, a solution?
Why does there have to be a cost for cabal entrance at all lol?!?!
So, some people complain about small PK benefits being able to be purchased with RP points, and what's the answer? Make cabal entrance cost RP.
This whole suggestion is like putting oil in a fire.
Cabals are the endgame of FL, it should be open to everyone, no matter what. We should be removing obstacles from getting to the endgame, not creating even more!
@f0xx well why even bother with Challenges in WM then? Just give everyone T automatically. Why bother with Syndicates having to collect heads? Just give them T automatically.
@f0xx well why even bother with Challenges in WM then? Just give everyone T automatically. Why bother with Syndicates having to collect heads? Just give them T automatically.
I thought we were discussing cabal entrance, not promotions? What does your example have to do with the subject at hand?
I think it was a counter point to what you said here.
The things he's mentioned are obstacles, so he's comparing those criteria to the obstacles you want removed.
That's my take anyway.
I see....
But those are different cases.
Gaining ranks in a cabal gives you huge PK advantage, especially when going from V to T since at T are the best skills of the cabal usually, so it's fine to have barriers for that.
Joining a cabal on the other hand gives you purpose, more than a PK advantage. In some cases, it even puts you at PK disadvantage.
So you see the difference? Either make the entry requirements hard coded, as Cel suggest (but buying entrance with RP is just silly), or just make the entrance for free (even though you will still have to be approved by other members).
The way I see it, having obstacles for people to join cabals is like stifling endgame content, for everyone, not just those who can't join the cabal.
Players usually always vote yes. I sent a Justice app way back saying I wanna join because I wanna doggie. Guess what, all yes.
I think it would be great though if there was a notification for the cabal Imm as soon as a clanny hits the requirements. This would nuke the cases when it is simply overlooked that someone is ready.
Someone suggested a quest to enter cabals, I think that would be a wonderful change.
When a character completes the required actions to be inducted, the next time they pass the Clan Master it could ask them if they are ready to join the elite. If the character says yes, they are given a cabal specific quest. Once completed they have "clearance" to send the application. If the character says no, the clan master would ask again the next time the character walks in.
While total automation does not appeal to me, automating WHEN a character can apply to a cabal appears to have only positive side effects. Staff has one less vegetable on their plate, players have one less invisible wall to run into.
Edit: Defending Purchasing the Application
As I see it, RP points enhance a characters life, they make things easier. Maybe Player Killing, Maybe Adventuring, Why not getting into a cabal?
I considered it like a pledge seeking a fraternity, we could allow characters to spend like 20 RP at the bizarre for a new Edge, Legacy. Purchasing the Legacy Edge is claiming a bloodline of individuals who haunted the same halls your character currently seeks. It offers no PK advantage, but it bypasses the application process. Meaning when a character completes the required actions they become autoinducted into the cabal.
This does not mean people have to earn X RP to be allowed to apply, it means if you earn the RP you may not have to apply.
Why not make it a dual system. Keep the actual system but allow characters to buy with RP points fast entrance.
You pay X rp points, and you buy fast access into the cabal. You get a 24h wait period during witch any Imm can veto you, returning the RP points. After the 24h you are part of the cabal. Make the cost relative to free spots in cabal, like 5 spots free 20 rp points. 1 spot free 200 rp points (or what ever is correct).
Allow an IP check to make sure XYZ tard gets an auto-block on this system.
Regarding Quest races. I don't think we should buy our way in. But I think we should be able to use RP points to bribe immortals into accepting our application. You pay 50 RP points and your limbo application suddenly pop up on Anume log in, by passing what ever immortal is actively waiting.
Tards have probably some tard notes on your character hidden notes that imms can only see (if you guys don't have this, you should), so Anume knows to give him the hammer.
You pay X rp points, and you buy fast access into the cabal. You get a 24h wait period during witch any Imm can veto you, returning the RP points. After the 24h you are part of the cabal. Make the cost relative to free spots in cabal, like 5 spots free 20 rp points. 1 spot free 200 rp points (or what ever is correct).