I'd like to open a discussion around shifting the Rp point currency from being a per character currency to being a per player currency.
This will still allow things to continue as per normal for most people but will have the added benefit of allowing people who play more characters to also collect points.
Some measures would have to be taken to stop people leveling characters to do Rp point quests then deleting but besides that I think this would be an improvement for some, without changing a thing for others.
RP points are accrued based around a character's RP, not around a player's ability to RP. You roleplay a character's personality fully and are rewarded for that interaction or that specific RP. It's not even really an abusable thing outside of your quest example, but that isn't the reason why I disagree with it.
If you have a Knight and are RPing with Ivesianna and the Val Miran riot, why should your new character benefit from that RP when that character was not part of the event that caused the points?
People will play throw away alts regardless, but now they have an incentive to Rp. Which will increase the amount of Rp and from my understanding that was the aim of introducing the points.
Why would they get points if they're not involved, good question. Is the worry that kotrag could roll up a vampire or something and have all the edges and rewards? If he has done the roleplay, he's earnt the points at one time or another and should be able to have that advantage due to the energy and time he's put in.
I still want to hear more, something like this would be a huge quality of life improvement to alt a holics.
As someone who runs 3 characters at a time I actually like the fact that the rp points are each encapsulated in the individual character.
If I got them by IP address, I would have a main, then be able to use my other two to play around and farm RP feeding my main.
Think about that, think about my last few main characters and the current one some people know....imagine me making custom gear for the main while avoiding detrimental situations by using alts to feed them with RP points. In effect min-maxing my main character while keeping it offline and safe...the pure definition of hording.
I don't see it working. As @Kyzarius mentioned, there's some serious issues with being able to acrue rewards on a character without having to log in.
Also, as with any player-based system, you run into the issue of multi-IPs in more than one way. A lot of players VPN, so their IPs change. Others have like 10+ different IPs that they cycle through depending on where they connect from. Others have multiple players living under the same roof. The logistics of this alone make it a rather impossible avenue for change.
imagine me making custom gear for the main while avoiding detrimental situations by using alts to feed them with RP points. In effect min-maxing my main character while keeping it offline and safe...the pure definition of hording.
Maybe this speaks more about the strength of the RP rewards more than anything?
25 minutes ago, Lloth said:
Also, as with any player-based system, you run into the issue of multi-IPs in more than one way. A lot of players VPN, so their IPs change. Others have like 10+ different IPs that they cycle through depending on where they connect from. Others have multiple players living under the same roof. The logistics of this alone make it a rather impossible avenue for change.
You're not wrong, New Zealand basically only has dynamic IP addresses, so ours change quite frequently anyway.
Let me provide a scenario and you tell me what you think. Over multiple characters I've earnt at a moderate estimation, around 250 rp points yet have never gotten a single edge/reward because they're in too small a quantity on each character. The points are effectively worthless, but if it was on one character it would be two edges. Why are my 250 points worth less than 250 points on someone elses single character? Are we really trying to pigeonhole people onto single characters that much? People complain about lack of hunting groups but the systems in place dissuade people from leveling new characters.
Just some thoughts, unless I know I'm going to stick with a character for quite some time I have zero incentive to RP in the current system.
Now I know you can say "Thats a flaw in your playstyle" or "Don't complain, it works for others" etc etc but at the end of the day if I have to play one single character, I wouldn't enjoy it and if I'm not enjoying the game I wouldn't continue to play (hurray, some of you chant) but is that really what we want to accomplish? Shutting down alternative playstyles?
What you're suggesting is that I could roll a LVL 1 character with all the benefits granted by hours of RP and content enrichment without ever doing anything or with the intention of doing anything.
The issue with that manner of thinking, is that it confuses the purpose of RP points. You can choose to powergame with them if you so desire. Get that extra 2 hit/dam/savespell. Or, you can choose to get a unique quest, or a room of your own, a plot surrounding your character. I always choose the latter. Outside of RP necklaces, I have never purchased any RP thing that gives any kind of PK value. Never. Plenty of other players do the exact same. Hell, on one character I bought an RP pet, knowing it had no combat value, simply because I thought "You know what would be cool and make so much sense? If I had this pet that I could use to give substance to something I can only otherwise accomplish with smotes..."
From the immortal perspective, the quality of RP has, objectively, improved dramatically. Some of you might not agree, but I have personally watched some of the most silent PKers before the system work extremely hard to craft fantastic RP to earn these points. Were they immediately good at it? No. Are they always top tier? No, sorry I have to be fair here. But they make the effort. And they are rewarded for it. And that reward makes them want to do it more. Possitive reinforcement. People like rewards.
However, if we made it so that RP rewards were given at the player level, not the character level... there wouldn't be a point. 10 alts later you'd have the RP to buy an artifact quest, or get an imm-led plot, and a character that is still green behind the ears, with no clear direction, small pieces of backstory, and have us with nothing to go on. Would that even be fun? It wouldn't be for me, both as a player and as an immortal. It would turn into either "denied, don't know enough about you" or "so you're saying you want Lloth...the SPIDER QUEEN... to teach you how to weave the magic of friendship into your ray of light?" (hyperbole - point being that either we would either have to say no, which nobody likes, or be forced to bend the game and our own characters to satisfy a character than probably won't last a month).
RP points are about game enrichment. However, more importantly, they are about character enrichment. Earning them on a character level ensures that characters get out what they put in. Which, in turn, makes the MUD a better place.
I love the idea of players earning the points for the sole reason that it will provide the game with a main char from every player that will probably never be deleted. Want people to play their main chars more? Allow them to shoot the shit with a new lowbie during downtime.
People get bored and sometimes just wanna power rank a new char for various reasons. Hey im the only 50 on but there are 2 low level dudes I could kill some time with, this is a GOOD throw away char. Hey look there are 2 lowbies on, im gonna mess them up with my FG or thief, this is a BAD throw away char that should warrant a punishment of gimpage to the player. (curse his account 'all chars' with hex and RP point deletion)
Yes we will still see alot of throw away chars, like we do now anyways so nothing changes except the fact that 'everyones' main chars would receive the buff. This allows players to stay competitive based on overall 'play time', that play time generally consists of interacting with the playerbase on all levels as a player.
New player logs on and sees 3 pinned chars sitting around bored, so he sits around for 5 minutes and then logs out.
or
New player logs on, 2 bored pinned chars leave and all of the sudden there are 3 new players, grouping, RPing and having a good time playing the game together.
So I love it when people make new chars all the time, but I REALLY love it when their main one makes their daily appearance too :)
People will play throw away alts regardless, but now they have an incentive to Rp. Which will increase the amount of Rp and from my understanding that was the aim of introducing the points.
People are free to do play what they want.
That being said, I think I am repeating myself, but the goal of this system is:
encourage RP
encourage longevity
We do not want to encourage people rolling a character with the sole purpose being to kill another character and then throw it away.
Not just that, but what you suggest can be abused, since RP points can be earned be certain quests. What stops one from rolling 10 "throw away alts", doing a certain very easy quest and getting 15 RP per character?
Why do you think it is strange that longevity and persistence earns you rewards mate? This is how real life works too. If you spend more time mastering a craft, or keeping a job, you will get more edge over someone who has just began one.
Basically, what your suggesting is not only counter productive, but is counter intuitive.
And what is this attitude of gimme gimme gimme that's plaguing the playerbase? There's a reason we don't have an advself command in the game, other than on Halloween Madness. There is a reason we have ranking and training, and cabal ranks, and cabal currency. RP points are just an extension of those systems.
That being said, I think I am repeating myself, but the goal of this system is:
encourage RP
encourage longevity
We do not want to encourage people rolling a character with the sole purpose being to kill another character and then throw it away.
Not just that, but what you suggest can be abused, since RP points can be earned be certain quests. What stops one from rolling 10 "throw away alts", doing a certain very easy quest and getting 15 RP per character?
Why do you think it is strange that longevity and persistence earns you rewards mate? This is how real life works too. If you spend more time mastering a craft, or keeping a job, you will get more edge over someone who has just began one.
Basically, what your suggesting is not only counter productive, but is counter intuitive.
And what is this attitude of gimme gimme gimme that's plaguing the playerbase? There's a reason we don't have an advself command in the game, other than on Halloween Madness. There is a reason we have ranking and training, and cabal ranks, and cabal currency. RP points are just an extension of those systems.
Kinda feel like im repeating myself too, nobody is asking for gimmie gimmie gimmie, YOU are the only one saying that.
Encourage RP is NOT character based, its PLAYER based. As long as PLAYERS are staying in character with however many characters they want why would you want to stymie their fun by limiting them to one?
Encourage longevity is NOT character based, that is PLAYER based too. PLAYERS delete boring characters. If I was told that I could only play my main character in the name of RP and longevity id never play, id go somewhere else where im allowed to have fun the way I wanna have fun. As long as im not hurting anyone who cares how many extra chars I have? Im playing a game while enhancing other peoples play within that same game, forcing me to sit on a main char while all the fun is happening at a lower level is retarded.
Note my previous post above when I said: " People get bored and sometimes just wanna power rank a new char for various reasons. Hey im the only 50 on but there are 2 low level dudes I could kill some time with, this is a GOOD throw away char. Hey look there are 2 lowbies on, im gonna mess them up with my FG or thief, this is a BAD throw away char that should warrant a punishment of gimpage to the player. (curse his account 'all chars' with hex and RP point deletion)". The mud should encourage GOOD throw away chars and punish BAD throw away chars.
RP point quests can check for (player accounts) if you wanted it to, if X player already received RP points for said quest change the prize to gold or experience. Your brain seems to think FL is like a Nintendo cartridge where once you turn it on THATS THE WAY IT IS. here is some news for you, its not... its just code... Simple changes can be made to prevent abuse, ive seen it done... ive even done it... your even playing on code that ive written for this game over 10 years ago ;)
I dont think its strange that longevity and persistence earns rewards, you made that up in your head. I encourage longevity and persistence if its fun, if its tedious and hate-mongering people shouldnt be forced to do it in order to play A GAME ;)
What I suggest is for people to have fun and that PLAYERS be bonused for TIME SPENT IN GAME having fun by enhancing everyones gameplay experience, what YOU seem to suggest if for players to sit on their main char regardless of fun. That seems counter productive for the game in its entirety, low level chars NEED to see and interact with other low level chars or those new players... wont... stay.
Nobody wants advself... except on halloween where its 'a thing'.
Has it crossed anyones mind that (back in our hayday) the amount of freedom the players had was what made the game so addicting? As long as they stayed in character they could create, delete, pin, rank sit, silent pk, role play pk, etc etc to their little hearts content. We saw a new scary 50 every week or two who would steam roll the pbase, everyone would make a new batch of chars just to fight that guy. That guy would get steam rolled, delete, make a new char and the cycle of frenzied ranking kept repeating itself. There were alot of mainstay long lived chars that have tomestones and streets named after them, nobody tied their hands so they wouldnt delete and nobody paid them to roleplay either. Ill even bet my last dollar that those players all had throw away chars at the same time :)
The moral of my way of thinking is that the focus should be on the players, if they wanna create long lived dynasty characters that should be their choice, its their characters. If they just wanna run and gun to play the game at every different angle that should be the players choice too, there is room for both styles of play where if the game can offer it then the players should be able to achieve it of their own accord :)
The moral of my way of thinking is that the focus should be on the players, if they wanna create long lived dynasty characters that should be their choice, its their characters. If they just wanna run and gun to play the game at every different angle that should be the players choice too, there is room for both styles of play where if the game can offer it then the players should be able to achieve it of their own accord.
What stops them from doing exactly what you describe currently?
Foxx why do you argue with UC and Wade? It is an exercise in futility. Seriously every time I read their posts I literally cringe. How anyone can say so much without saying anything is well beyond me... By the time you logically address something they said they just move to the next post and claim they never said it, then come out with something else to retort and the cycle continues.
Seriously I have never seen so much complaining over nothing that is disguised as constructive analysis of "something".
What people keep disregarding or dont want to acknowledge from this entire idea thread column is the PLAYER whom is attached to the characters.
You are basically saying that the PLAYERS whom have an excess amount of time are abusive because they would spend multitudes of hours logged into this game roleplaying with everyone from every different level because its not all on one character.
I personally as a past and current player, a former imm, a former coder, a former imp of my own MUD that only shut down due to real life time restraints care more about the players, not the characters.
Every player will 'catch a groove' with a specific race/class/combo ONLY by experimenting! Who cares if they play a dozen chars IF they consistently log on their 1 main char whom is always visible and available.
Im done with my opinion on the subject, ending with players are worth more than chars. I personally might not like the player and I might not like their their chars, bottom line is that they keep coming back and playing because the game is fun for them which makes the game fun for me :)
Using Alt earned RP for Main Character Upgrades, or worse, using a lifetimes of your currents RP to kickstart your nexts career. Just too abusable.
Just for kicks id like to ask, what is abusive about having X available skills/buffs/bonuses on a char that was born yesterday apposed to A char born 6 weeks prior if the cost is the same to the player.... They can only spend it once, who gives a crap if they load a new char with it or an old char with 6 deaths to its name? The difference between me loading 2 edges onto a new (berserker) or a 10 deathed berserker means absolutely nothing to anyone except ME, ive been playing berserkers to edge out my kingpen in order to try and make the hall of fame with my personal HERO.
I totally understand where everyone is coming from when they say each char needs to put in its time in order to peak, HOWEVER, each PLAYER has been putting in as much time as ALL of their chars combined! The PLAYER should receive the same bonus too be played however they like distributed between any of their chars that they seem fit because the PLAYER is the person behind the characters that make YOUR gameplay fun, not the character behind the player :)