Sometimes equipment doesnt get passed around enough until a well-played thief comes along and steals it. Problem is, everyone wants to get their equipment and hold onto it forever. Would be cool if thieves could slip equipment off of people mid fight, like bracelets.
That’s actually a pretty cool idea.. if pry worked mid-combat as you fought and random pieces were removed in rounds either automatic or command entered.
If added, though, thieves would need an adjustment to their defense. I’m in ~400ish -ac, 110 parry, and 55/58 hit dam and I get wrecked in regular combat rounds.
Kalivar
1 hour ago, Anonymous said:
I’m in ~400ish -ac, 110 parry, and 55/58 hit dam and I get wrecked in regular combat rounds.
Kalivar
A ninja with those stats would be absolute hosing people in melee lol. Such dramatic difference between the rogue classes.
Just from my experience as a thief it seems like their skills scale very poorly versus good ac in general. You have a lot of trouble landing blackjacks and dual backstab versus moderate to high ac. Overall I just couldn't justify putting in that much work to have too rely on stars aligning scenarios. I had a fair a amount of pk attempts where I would backstab, and 4 rounds later I'm almost dead even after pries. Traps wherent helping me kill they where lagging people so I could stay alive lol. I just could take find a groove (slith thief for reference)
Come on, you can't take steal away from thieves. That's like taking pets away from rangers. It's a signature skill that should ONLY belong to thieves (not bards) IMO. Thieves have it across the spectrum as far as PK ease goes. There are times your PK will last less than 20 seconds. And times you will have to try 20 times before you get the setup you need to win. That's just the way it is. This log doesn't show thieves having it bad, it shows poor play on the thief's part.
By all means, those that say thieves are easy to PK with, roll one up.
I highly doubt anyone will do much better against this PBase.
Kalivar
I think an easy fix to the problem would be to give thieves circle side step (the gladiator skill that used to come from close combat) . Lose pry/plant. Keep steal, cause...thieves. And adjust their thaco a little bit, to be able to compete to the melee output of the other melee oriented classes.
Non-gladiator thieves can't be played like melee tanks. You fought that entire PK on the druid's terms. In a forest, in a lightning area, you only appeared to use two traps. I saw you looking at the druid so you must be using detect magic but didn't time his poison. Even if you had landed the blackjacks, he would have woken. You never kicked dirt to try for flee/murder. You never used your qskill but maybe the druid has an immunity, I don't recall. Since this was all from the druid's perspective it's hard to say anything else. I would focus on stealing more stuff before engaging if you know it's going to be a long fight. Before you know it they're on water without flight or recall. Something like that. You have to be crafty at times to be a good thief.
36 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:
Non-gladiator thieves can't be played like melee tanks. You fought that entire PK on the druid's terms. In a forest, in a lightning area, you only appeared to use two traps. I saw you looking at the druid so you must be using detect magic but didn't time his poison. Even if you had landed the blackjacks, he would have woken. You never kicked dirt to try for flee/murder. You never used your qskill but maybe the druid has an immunity, I don't recall. Since this was all from the druid's perspective it's hard to say anything else. I would focus on stealing more stuff before engaging if you know it's going to be a long fight. Before you know it they're on water without flight or recall. Something like that. You have to be crafty at times to be a good thief.
Can't pry/plant on a transformed werebeast. There goes "softening" my target.
The damage was too fast that any 2 round lag ability would have gotten me killed.
He defused my antimagic traps, so there goes dispelling poison so I can use 90% of my skills. Brambus Needler was hitting a dismember and my damage was horrendous despite having God-tier equipment.
I don't think anyone here can name a "decent" thief in recent memory that wasn't a Gladiator. People keep saying "be crafty", but its difficult to be crafty when they know what you're going to do because that's what you HAVE to do to win and even when I ***DO ***this is my damage:
Quote
back glim
Glimick fades into existence.
Your backstab *** DEMOLISHES *** Glimick!
Your second backstab MUTILATES Glimick!
Glimick has some small wounds and bruises.
Kalivar: [100][===|===|===|===]
hp:962/962 mv:333/549 mv:382/441
You dodge Glimick's attack.
An obsidian plummet tears into your nerves.
You dodge some ectoplasm solid's attack.
Your divine power wounds Glimick.
Your divine power wounds Glimick.
Your corruption misses Glimick.
Your divine power wounds Glimick.
Your corruption injures Glimick.
Your corruption injures Glimick.
Glimick is shocked by the lightning from the Chaos Rod.
Your shocking bite grazes Glimick.
Kalivar's Purger adorned with a fel charm draws life from Glimick.
Your life drain misses Glimick.
Glimick has some small wounds and bruises.
Now, you tell me how a thief that lands the nigh-impossible blackjack on a Savant(poison and reverse time on blackjack make it a crapshoot) only does THAT kind of damage against a gnome psi when I have 55hit/58dam + haste w/ one avg 31 spear and another avg27 spear.
I don't buy it.
Kalivar
Yeah...on a gnome of all things. Is AC still OP ?
I did score my only kills on Savant druid with gladiator thief via landed antimagic and after that only because gladiator forms. I did try the same with Lisko previously. Sarcon's other druids did stick around in bush as long as it was convenient for them, but eventually just druid gated away if I was even close getting a kill. And Kotrag didn't even bother going after druids afaik ;)
With Durwin (undead syndi thief) I caught egreirs Watcher werebeast druid spamming control weather at Gor'gorak and without druid sanc. I managed to abduct him. I did the murder flee dance while it was lagged. It did cut the lag by disconnecting and logging back in. Ha, I had barely scratched him without him having sanc. He ate my traps and waltzed away happily. Then re entered the combat and just did some quickclaw and reaped me a new arsehole.
After that I told him that I won't bother with his butt no longer, as even when I find them pants down and their hand knee deep in their bunghole - I can't do a thing to them damagewise. I had good set of gear too. Tanky, bush invokers ;)
Thieves aren't easy vs skiled oponents, but skilled thieves are a nightmare.
1° You were using ice weapons vs someone with ice shield. I have no idea why you just dual flaming daggers, and circled him while he was at the commander, dirted and chased with fire edged daggers. The spear in NW val miran is fire rare. The multiplier is x2 and vuln is just x1.5. Fire/ice shield is a huge spell but has a huge counter. And he cant cancel it, i think.
2° you were using the dispel trap vs a mage with high saves. You have a selection of other traps, perhaps use them insted of dispel. Eyedust is amazing, specialty if you steal gyvels. Good luck quafing healing potions blind.
6 minutes ago, mya said:
Thieves aren't easy vs skiled oponents, but skilled thieves are a nightmare.
1° You were using ice weapons vs someone with ice shield. I have no idea why you just dual flaming daggers, and circled him while he was at the commander, dirted and chased with fire edged daggers. The spear in NW val miran is fire rare. The multiplier is x2 and vuln is just x1.5. Fire/ice shield is a huge spell but has a huge counter. And he cant cancel it, i think.
2° you were using the dispel trap vs a mage with high saves. You have a selection of other traps, perhaps use them insted of dispel. Eyedust is amazing, specialty if you steal gyvels. Good luck quafing healing potions blind.
Notice how I changed weapons when I saw the ice shield? That spear is 2handed.
Perhaps you don't know this, so I'll let you in on the secret, @mya, the scroll of defusion defuses any trap that isn't a mechanism(recent change). Also, your advice is to not use a dispel trap because of saves, but to use another trap that is savable.. Sound logic you got there...
If ***ANYONE ***thinks they can do better, like I said, roll it up. I'm seeing a lot of tactics and strategies that worked in a different era of FL. I'm seeing a lot of people say just do this or that and you win, but if you know to do "this or that", doesn't my opponent as well?
There are a few people that have actually played a thief responding that know how difficult it is.
Kalivar
26 minutes ago, mya said:
Thieves aren't easy vs skiled oponents, but skilled thieves are a nightmare.
1° You were using ice weapons vs someone with ice shield. I have no idea why you just dual flaming daggers, and circled him while he was at the commander, dirted and chased with fire edged daggers. The spear in NW val miran is fire rare. The multiplier is x2 and vuln is just x1.5. Fire/ice shield is a huge spell but has a huge counter. And he cant cancel it, i think.
2° you were using the dispel trap vs a mage with high saves. You have a selection of other traps, perhaps use them insted of dispel. Eyedust is amazing, specialty if you steal gyvels. Good luck quafing healing potions blind.
This falls under dated advice. It worked years and years ago. It doesn't work anymore.
You didn't change to fire weapons. They are non rare avg24 weapons, you should have a set of fire and ice daggers on packs and throwing daggers. The spear is for edging.
Different ppl have different saves. I doubt he has that high mal saves. You can also pilfer the potions.
Or try another kind of trap, like blackspore if you are afraid of defusing.
Chief says She is Wolf, and tainted slash is their werepower which means physical resist. And you were using slash, pierce and corruption.
I also suspect corruption to be physical damage. But unsure ATM.
GIT MYA'd.
It is really sound advice though. Instead of petting, you can try heavy petting your cat. That is the difference you get against druids, the tanky invokers of bushes and adjusting to their chosen shield with proper weapons.
Corruption is magical, confirmed by unnamed ogre.
If there is a cabal war and CTF is on the table, Camp at your cabal guardian. Force them to hit antimagic, if it fails. Reset.
Or try to feign them to follow you ... to your traps. Oh damn, best thief trick revealed!
2 minutes ago, hotspring monkey said:
GIT MYA'd.
It is really sound advice though. Instead of petting, you can try heavy petting your cat. That is the difference you get against druids, the tanky invokers of bushes and adjusting to their chosen shield with proper weapons.
Corruption is magical, confirmed by unnamed ogre.
If there is a cabal war and CTF is on the table, Camp at your cabal guardian. Force them to hit antimagic, if it fails. Reset.
Or try to feign them to follow you ... to your traps. Oh damn, best thief trick revealed!
It is good information.
You mean have them follow you when they have detect traps scroll up that lasts for 60ticks and defuse traps scroll in their bound backpack that I can’t steal? I wonder why this never works... 😜(I’ve tried this... a lot... it’s basically the only thing I can do.)
I never got set against the Druid to fight. I was checking some damage with vuln dagger, which wasn’t good, I don’t think silver vuln is going through physical resist which it should, imo.
Its been a frustrating route when you need to land blackjack to do any of your skills, but can’t land blackjack because of poison in bound bags, defuse trap scrolls, or when they do hit it, it’s saved. The blackjacks I DID try here, I did on purpose knowing poison was up to see if it can land vs her -ac. It didn’t land.
I don’t think thieves are in a good spot and I don’t like the idea of having to pry hard earned EQ to debuff them if I ever manage to land blackjack.
Kalivar
9 minutes ago, Anonymous said:
You mean have them follow you when they have detect traps scroll up that lasts for 60ticks and defuse traps scroll in their bound backpack that I can’t steal? I wonder why this never works... 😜(I’ve tried this... a lot... it’s basically the only thing I can do.)
You could have trapped your temple there, knowing it will follow ;) But you were in no fighting condition that time. Maybe. He was going in for the kill, ignoring slow movements and careful tactics. There are situations where you can still lure them in your traps. Yes, I have trapped a place in other side of the Aabahran, only to lure someone there. Get paranoid with your traps. Your only chance for a kill is IF antimagic strips the druid out of every spell.
4 hours ago, mya said:
I also suspect corruption to be physical damage. But unsure ATM.
1 hour ago, hotspring monkey said:
Corruption is magical, confirmed by unnamed ogre.
Or you could look here.
https://wiki.theforsakenlands.com/Information/DamageAnalysis#NOUN