Why can't bards be in Warmaster?

?'

Race: human elf drow dwarf duergar halfling gnome avian fire stone storm minotaur slith feral werebeast half-elf ogre

Class: War Ber Ran Thi Mon Cru Bla

y naut?

Cause they have quite a few spells?

And wasn't there a gnome bard who was a warmaster named Pip?

Didn't know bards had spells. Never played one.

A related question... from an RP perspective, do bard songs count as magical or not?

Cause they have quite a few spells?

And wasn't there a gnome bard who was a warmaster named Pip?

Pip was not a Warmaster. I am fairly certain he was in Academy, though I am not sure whether he ever became a Herald.

And as for bards being Warmaster, I don't think it fits from an RP perspective. I don't personally think it would be unbalanced from a PK perspective though.

I think of all classes that can respect learning to fight anytime, anywhere it would be the one class that has all facets of combat. Rogue thieving, fighter dual parry, four seasons for affliction, Curatives, buffs, with a nice race selection yet.

Ah, now I will admit that I overlooked the bard's access to curative spells. I can see where that could be unbalanced.

Give the Bard the option of losing their spells (not that important anyways).

Bards songs are not generally magical, except Four Seasons. Every other song is inspirational off the top of my head.

So, get rid of those spells and that one song...and you have instant Warmaster!

A related question... from an RP perspective' date=' do bard songs count as magical or not?[/quote']

That depends on the effect of the song. Four Seasons is definitely magic, while Battle Hymns is not.

Warmasters lose spells when they become WM anyway, with the exception of blm spells. Rangers lose control weather and thunderstorm, and simple can't do "cast" as it says "you have lost you magical abilities!"

Warmasters lose spells when they become WM anyway' date=' with the exception of blm spells. Rangers lose control weather and thunderstorm, and simple can't do "cast" as it says "you have lost you magical abilities!"[/quote']

Blademaster spells are more like trances and stances not magical or spell-like in nature.

I was talking in regards to mechanically, in game. As RP, they're mantra's/stance's, sure. However, they are 'cast', and therefore, are spells.

Last time I was a warmaster, wich was many many moons ago true, cabal Imm at the time said bard spells weren't "unacceptable, as it was sheer inspiration for from their silver tongues"

But I suppose it's subject to cabal imm feelins

I can see why they wouldn't be aloud into Warmaster...not because of their songs...at least not all of them...but they do have several spells...

I would like to have a Bard...in Syndicate...

That depends on the effect of the song. Four Seasons is definitely magic' date=' while Battle Hymns is not.[/quote']

So basically, songs that affect a character in a long-term manner would count as non-magic, whereas songs that have an immediate definitely-supernatural element would count as magic? So Shield of Words would be non-magic, but the one that creates a spring (Leviathan something) would be magic?

While I understand the reasoning here... one could somewhat twist this same argument in favor of certain prayers (i.e. bless, frenzy) as well.

Feel free to just cut me off at any point and claim rule by power (which, in many instances including this one, I'm perfectly fine with), because else I might just continue this line of questioning into ridiculousness. I do that sometimes.

Shield of Words is magical. You have called upon the ancients to protect you, it's quite spell like.

Prayers...I see where you're going with that. Atheist.

People dig into code too much. Use your common sense more.

Battle hymn I see as.... battle hymn. When you see an army marching to the sounds of some hymn it is much mightier than an ordinary army passing by.

So Shield of Words would be non-magic' date=' but the one that creates a spring (Leviathan something) would be magic?[/quote']

I kinda saw it as something different...Shield of Words could work either way depending on how you look at it...but Leviathan's Passing I saw as playing a song that called the creature to you...like beast call in a since...so, yeah...I can see how looking at song's being Magical/Not Magical would be a bit confusing...

I can see how looking at song's being Magical/Not Magical would be a bit confusing...

Exactly. Not that it's terribly important... few people play antimagic chars anymore... I'm just curious.

This bard isn't casting. His singing invokes the effects from within the listener and himself. Thats how I see it anyway, sure it may be a spell in code, but if you actually imagine it like you should be doing on the mud, it is a damn song.