camoflauge isn't the be all or end all of the ranger path. Sure you can camo, but what about your beasts? An archer ranger can't camo his beasts. A smart player will know where you are at all times, by doing a 'where' displacer/wyvern/mammoth/leopard/raven. Furthermore, the scrolls last a relatively long time, so in order to 'stalk' my target I must relinquish half my fighting power(beasts) pray they don't have faerie fog, or any room effect spells, and sit in the room with them for as long as possible, waiting for a missile shield to drop? Then what, I get one or two good shots in... maybe a sleep or a blind, and they put up another scroll, and I wait it all out again? Hardly sounds like a battle to me...
Change ideas
The missile shield scrolls last like 8 hours dude. That is nothing.
Also, a rangers archery is incredibly powerful. Remember, that the class doesn't even need them. They are a perk. Rangers did just fine without these tweaks.
Aside from that, only hybrids and mage types can use scrolls. Those are the classes that Rangers tend to wreck anyway. It arrows make them fare better against warrior types.
What about Berserkers? The only melee class that cannot use fired weapons at all. I mean, hell... Ninjas can but Zerks cannot?
I say this is a big balancing issue for Berserkers and why they have such a hard time with other melees.
Okay, the class doesn't even NEED any of it's selectable class skills? Your kidding me right? So put an archer ranger and a tracker ranger, or even a beastmaster side by side against the same opponents and they are going to be MUCH stronger. Thats four skills, completely nullified for one class, that beastmasters and trackers don't have to worry about. Trackers can throw to lag or damage ALMOST as often as an archer can shoot, with ALMOST the same kind of damage potential, minus the effect of the arrows themselves at mastery. But they pick up a lag skill, the ability to TRACK down opponents, and the ability to camoflauge all their beasts? Thats ridiculous, all four of those skills are extremely powerful, extremely useful, and NOT able to be made immune to. Shield throw even lags through protective shield. I'm sorry, but I believe your reasoning is flawed. Furthermore, Only hybrids and mage types can use scrolls? Mage types rape rangers. Ever tried to fight a call lightning spamming invoker as a ranger? Hardly ever works out well. Esspecially as an archer when they are using scrolls 
And btw.. thats like 15 classes that can use scrolls.. out of what.. 18-19 total? I think your reasoning is flawed again 
There is also another way to gain missile shield too, available to classes that can't use scrolls.
Dey
Well, you can hide your beasts, just not through traditional methods. It is much more situational as to where said encounters are occurring. There are ways to keep your beasts within a certain area near those battlefields, to use when you need them. Like with all classes, it is about learning what your opponent can and cannot do, then using it to your advantage. Obviously it is easier said then done, but it is very doable.
There is also another way to gain missile shield too, available to classes that can't use scrolls.
Dey
Hrmm, I did not know that... I will have to do some searching now.
Also, a rangers archery is incredibly powerful. Remember, that the class doesn't even need them. They are a perk. Rangers did just fine without these tweaks.
Aside from that, only hybrids and mage types can use scrolls. Those are the classes that Rangers tend to wreck anyway. It arrows make them fare better against warrior types.
Also.. saying that the class doesn't need it's selectable path skills, is like saying that berserkers, warriors, crusaders, and every other class with selectable customizable paths, don't need those paths. Thats just plain stupid. Warriors and berserkers esspecially would be very gimped by the loss of the selectable masteries, and lores they get. There are no scrolls which negate weapon seize or weapon lock, or path of devastation rage. Why should rangers be gimped in such a way that only ONE of the three paths is completely usless in said situation.
The fact that berserkers need some modification (in my opinion as well) to be on par with both warriors, and rangers is a whole different issue, and I fail to see how ranger archery path makes berserkers any more or less formidable. What do you need a bow for, when you can headbutt, haymaker, weapon and shield cleave, and bodyslam someone to death? Ranger has three skills usable in combat, dirt kick, disarm, and insect swarm. I'd say the extra damage, and effects that fired weapons give them, are absolutely, and completely necessary, to keep Archery path rangers on par with other hybrid classes, let alone other ranger paths.
Also don't forget the fact that rangers .. .. . . . .. . and without. . .. . . they.. .
be only . .. . fraction. . . .. . elephant. . . .. . geriatric. . . . . . thermometer.
Somehow I missed the replies on this thread.
Did you just say call lightning wrecks rangers? Because I am not sure you've fought a strong ranger lately as an Invoker. I have. My last Invoker was 3 rounded by a ranger. EVERY time. Well, sometimes 2 rounds and I think it is safe to say that I am not new to the PK arena.
The fact that a tracker ranger is overpowered does not mean that archery ranger is broken. Weapon lock is by far the most powerful warrior lore, does that mean the others are broken? No. Weapon lock is overpowered.
Your right. Warriors don't need selectable skills. They are perks. Crusaders? You obviously have never played one. That comparison cannot even almost be made. Berserkers? They are gimped with or without selectable skills.
You seem to overestimate the strength of berserker skills and underestimate the ranger skills. (You forget call lightning - rangers get it)
If missile shield is such a problem for you then I think you are far too strongly relying on fired weapons and completely forgetting your other abilities.
The fact that berserkers need some modification (in my opinion as well) to be on par with both warriors, and rangers is a whole different issue, and I fail to see how ranger archery path makes berserkers any more or less formidable. What do you need a bow for, when you can headbutt, haymaker, weapon and shield cleave, and bodyslam someone to death? Ranger has three skills usable in combat, dirt kick, disarm, and insect swarm. I'd say the extra damage, and effects that fired weapons give them, are absolutely, and completely necessary, to keep Archery path rangers on par with other hybrid classes, let alone other ranger paths.
There's also call lightning...also, and probably more importantly, you should be outmeleeing literally everything with scrolls (exception pallies and maybe BMGs if they can hamper you enough) combine that with herb (which rocks acupuncture's face), pets, and oh yeah probably the single most useful hiding skill. I'm not even getting into how completely broken rangers can be in certain race/cabal combos. Hell you don't even have to technically be in the same room as someone to see if they have missile shield (shoot...I missed? Better take a lap around insert semi-nearby area and come back). Lalalalala...oh wait I have completely insane melee offense and defense with staff/pugil and I can spell up myself and my homeravens with staves? Check this out...I can herb fast and shrug off that mal and be directly up that shaman's patooty before he can even get to the missile shield scroll seller...Ranger life is good. I mean...you don't hear a heck of a lot of people saying another class might need buffing because certain things can be done to shrug it off (eg. pally's flamestrike and how infuriating fighting certain things that get a nice long laugh at you trying to smoke their eyes.)
(eg. pally's flamestrike and how infuriating fighting certain things that get a nice long laugh at you trying to smoke their eyes.)
Personally I have no idea what you're talking about here. Flamestrike is a damned wonderful spell on almost any foe.
Ask Andolini if rangers without fired weapons, tracking or beast buffs were weak...
(eg. pally's flamestrike and how infuriating fighting certain things that get a nice long laugh at you trying to smoke their eyes.)
Those same things are immune to dirt kicking, and flamestrike actually does blind them. As does any flaming weapon. So yeah.. moot point.
Anyway my point is, why play an archery path ranger when you can play a tracker or beastmaster, and use your extra skills. I am not saying rangers are weak by any means, they are most definately one of my favorite classes to play. What I am saying is that one scroll which can completely nullify one paths whole skillset, is alittle infuriating to say the least. Am I strong without my fired weapons? Yes. Am I dependent on the fired weapons? No, obviously not possible in the realm of today. Did I choose to play an archery class ranger, because it sounded like a fun concept? Yes. Was I disappointed when I found out that any other path I had chosen would have been much stronger than the one I chose, because of those scrolls/items? Yes.
Those scrolls essentially make it a ludacris decision to play an archery path ranger. Coupled with the fact that up until a week or two ago, anyone could use those arrows, so there was no special reason to play a ranger. Things are getting better. But I just don't see the point in creating an item which is limitlessly attained in your local scroll shop, and completely nullifies ANY classes entire selectable skillset. Seems like you just doom that path to a dusty corner, as noone playing to win, is going to want to select a path that isn't usable against almost every opponent.
In archeries defense... it is a great tool to solo winter. If thats what your into.
I actually think that rangers and druids should both have preserve. As they naturally work with herbs, hence the skill, it would only be logical that they would know how to preserve them.
I actually think that rangers and druids should both have preserve. As they naturally work with herbs' date=' hence the skill, it would only be logical that they would know how to preserve them.[/quote']
If that is to be implemented I would never play any other class than rangers.
... Why would preserve be the deciding factor for you to play rangers exclusively? It's okay... but it's no herb/camo/pets.
... Why would preserve be the deciding factor for you to play rangers exclusively? It's okay... but it's no herb/camo/pets.
Bless
Frenzy
Armor
Stone skin
Many sanc herbs
Animate flesh (Dunno if that is how the spell is called, it's been a while since I last played a thief/ninja)
Slow
Detect magic
Detect invisibility
Ventriqulate (sp?)
All of those affects can be found on herbs and I am sure there are even more than those. They don't need some ofcourse, but what they don't need they can trade. Rangers are quite buff as they are right now and preserve will be a major boost.
From realism point of view, yes, they should get it. From balance point of view, no way.
you can still get all those effects without preserve... preserve would just make the consumables last longer.
you can still get all those effects without preserve... preserve would just make the consumables last longer.
Yes but you have to 1) Restock your supplies more often and 2) Worry about addiction much more, while with preserve addiction is not really a problem.
you can still get all those effects without preserve... preserve would just make the consumables last longer.
My thoughts exactly. Yeah it'd be neat, but not a deciding factor for me. More power to ya then, I guess.