Trouble with Tribunes

Tribunals are supposed to cater to the newbies by keeping all the thugs, gangstas, and wannabes at bay making the towns safer for newbies.

Raargant makes a great point. Tribunal's power is directly correlative to its members. There are currently 6-8 active Tribunals. I hear people primarily bitching about one, sometimes about two, maybe three. Why is that? Because the others are not owning you. That's not an overpowered cabal. That's a class/cabal combo you haven't learned how to beat yet, that's all.

Let me put it another way. How many times have you killed Messalantha? Or Covus? Nasetuit? Perhaps Dyendas, did you kill him? How about Senrail? Rompkei? Jisil? Any of them? Are their cabals overpowered? Should they be gangable, all day all night, just because you might not be able to beat them? The cabal is fine and not overpowered at all. In fact, they are the only cabal with 2 natural enemies in addition to having to chase down criminals and outlaws.

My argument isn't about the past because I sucked and really didn't play back then as i'm sure many who are complaining now can relate, back then I was never made outlaw for first offenses, especially if it can be argued whether it was an offense or not, that, I can remember. But regarding the outlaw wanted idea I think that's great news. Thanks for letting me know Raargant. I think it brings the game more into balance.

The difficulty of an outlaw life corresponds directly with the skill of the Justices/Tribunals.

Just like the difficulty of a Justice/Tribunal life correlates directly with the skill of the outlaws. That's how it's always been.

Tribunal isn't new, it's been out for months. Remember how badly they got pasted then? Not sure if you were here for that, but it was pretty damn bad. The entire RP plot of retaking Val Miran/Miruvhor had to be put on hold, because there were essentially no Tribunals at all.

Somewhat incorrect, diffuclty of an outlaw life doesn't correspond directly with the skill of justice/tribunals. You can have one hippy arse mofo newbie paladin who can attack my storm giant warrior over and over without consequence. This player has no skill yet can still make ones life hell.

Yes, but only the Tribunal/Justice is REQUIRED to come after you, if you are wanted. The others don't have to attack you while a wanted outlaw. His point being that it works both ways. If my gnome warrior Tribunal is the only Tribunal online and your drow shaman wanted outlaw shows himself, I don't particularly want to come after you but I have to. That's the consequence of my RP and choice to join Tribunal. I often will have to fight someone I don't want to and who might be more skilled than me. It's the same in any cabal.

His point was also that being a wanted outlaw, a choice made by RP style, has ramifications. Your wanted outlaw flag is meaningless, meaning lacks any real punch, if the Tribunal can't bring you down. It just means that you will have a constant source of gold and equipment forced to come to you by their cabal duties.

Chayesh has the right of it, essentially.

And let's be honest. How often do skilled PK'ers make lawfuls? Pretty darn rare. I played a Justice before, and was Justice IMM a time. It's booooooring.

So in essence, generally speaking, Justice is the only real cabal composed usually of middling PK'ers (not to offend any skilled Justices out there) that usually have to go after the best PK'ers.

Oh and reading this some posts now this thread has got way off track. Its not about those Tribunal who are HARD to kill, it is the fact that some are impossible to kill for certain characters (or killing them brings harsh consequences), but those characters can be sent do death. My evil/neutral will probably end up an outlaw, I don't mind fighting strong characters, however, as it stands, I won't be making a good align character in a while, purely because I've had experiences with a wanted good align character in a world of good align Justice's, and it isn't pleasant. And now from what I hear the changes to Justice make it easier to want people, for very simple grey areas, a piece of piss to just outlaw someone off the bat, and other **** like that.

In other words, it'd just be my luck that my good align character would be outlawed for poking a Tribunal in the side.

Once again, if good justices can see good criminals as evil doers, why isn't plausible that good criminals see good justices as evil? Of course it is plausible, but the thing is, they cop penalties but the Justice's don't? Why so? I think that once one good attacks another, its fair game. There should be no situation in which a person in real life shouldn't be able to defend themself.

Anyhow, in future I'll more then likely just mercy them, hint that there is an incapacitated Justice sitting and walk off. Last time this happened it lead to my outcasting. But if what Raargant says above is correct, its only punishable if I actually strike the killing blow, or does this only apply for Tribunal? So either outcast good justice when they send good align characters to death and outcast the good player if they get a justice killed (indirectly) or don't outcast either, it needs to be a level playing ground. This is what I've spoken about before, that there has to be a firm set of do's and do not's, not this character can do this, but this character cant, etc etc etc. That's what used to **** me off and made me disappear for eons. The fact that I could do something and be punished (one example of this was me getting slayed by an immortal for saying okay, the reasoning he gave for the slaying after a bit of research, was false, know what the reason was, this is a medieval themed mud, they didn't use okay back in those day, but now the current imms are saying that this is not the case, that its a mix of several different things), but everyone else could go and do it at free will without punishment.

Just for the record, I never stated that this was a new problem, has been an onrunning problem for a long time.

Anyhow I'm stepping away from this thread now, speaking of why I left originally gets me heated, the fact that immortals all have different opinions on whats rule and whats not and each one changes them to their own personal preference gets me hot under the collar. IMPS need to sit down and set a hard set of do's and do not's and all immortal staff need to follow by these and reprimand characters where needed.

But now im sending the topic off topic, so I'll leave it there.

You got slayed for saying okay?

Are you serious? When as this?

I'll personally start a 'wtf?' thread in the IMM forum if we start slaying people for saying 'okay'. Promise.

I was having a chat with an Immortal on Linwee, my psi wanna-be. The immortal was cloaked so I have not a clue who it was, and we had an OOC discussion afterwards. They were not willing to give away there identity.

My guess at the time was Bryntryst or Rathe, as at the time I think we had a bit of a vendetta happening between us, and they liked to push my buttons as much as possible. No harsh feelings though, im over it, its just a game and I shouldn't have gotten so caught up over it.

That wasn't the only weird arse garbage that happened to me, but it was a multitude of those sorts of things that ended up in me disappearing. Even now I find it hard to bring myself to start a character, purely because im afraid of getting emotionally evolved and breaking down again Yes this game stressed me enough to make me want to rip my hair out of my head.

As to when it was, im not sure, before I ceased playing a couple of yrs ago. A few months before viri left.

I emailed viri about the incident and he even said that the immortal was out of line. Of course you cant reverse what was already done though. I had quite a good relationship with Virigoth though, one of the few immortals at the time, he'd actually listen to my suggestions (was trying to sort out some psi issues) and commend me where commendation was deserved

Game-induced stress=bad.

Means that you need to take some time off, definitely

I was never bored as a justice.

Game-induced stress=bad.

Means that you need to take some time off, definitely

Two+ years suffice? I hope so. Given me time to realise there alot more important things out there then silly net games

Thing that really got me about that slaying was the fact I made an effort to say Okay instead of just Ok as by that time I was over just going around and mass pking everyone and was trying to expand on my roleplay horizons. Using such an abbreviation I would of expected to cop some sort of punishment.

Either there were a crapload of cabal enemies at the time, or you have an incredible tolerance for tedium and thumb twiddling. It might have been different between Sentinel/Enforcer for power-related reasons (I never ended up doing a Sentinel), but eh. Boring in my book, not being able to attack idiots who attacked me when they ran into the city, heh.

RE Tater: ROFLMAO! Your idea of expanding RP is saying 'Okay' instead of 'Ok'? roflmao, sorry, couldn't resist poking you for that.

I behave like a justice in real life. No way am I being a justice in the game.

I faced 3-4 watchers a day + nortak + anyone elsethat wnated to bang on me.

It was rather, ermm not boring anyway... haha

See?

And that's why Justices/Tribunals have a pain in the *** time, heh. Who WANTS to be a lawful guy?

Either there were a crapload of cabal enemies at the time, or you have an incredible tolerance for tedium and thumb twiddling. It might have been different between Sentinel/Enforcer for power-related reasons (I never ended up doing a Sentinel), but eh. Boring in my book, not being able to attack idiots who attacked me when they ran into the city, heh.

RE Tater: ROFLMAO! Your idea of expanding RP is saying 'Okay' instead of 'Ok'? roflmao, sorry, couldn't resist poking you for that.

No I was actually having a decent IC conversation with an immortal and had long since stopped using shortened or abbreviated words in my vocabularly, gimme a break! I BITE! Oh and don't be disappearing right yet, trying to remember how to write a decent description, think im getting there though.

STOP BREAKING THE LAW, *******!!!

• Jim Carrey

See?

And that's why Justices/Tribunals have a pain in the *** time, heh. Who WANTS to be a lawful guy?

I liked it, and learned alot. There were other tribunals who owned the other guys. I was jsut around more and alone sometimes

You guys are leaving the points.

I'll start it anew with my recent character Dyendas.

My chose to go Avatar, I'm warned RIGHT then and there about goodies in tribunal attacking me and how I will act in that situation. I was fine with it, I didn't plan on breaking the law. I was planning on hunting tribs outside of town, because I didn't want to be forced into that situation. However, being Avatar, the Imm's FORCED me to either give up avatar, or attack the vampire. So my RP has consequence, but it was FORCED. Now my problem is, not so much that goodies are hunting me down, is the fact that when neutrals and evil tribs are on, I'm being hunted down by the goodies. Or Goodie tribs following necromancers around trying to take you down together.

All your points have ended in blanks for me. Speak to me like I'm an utter retard please. Detect evil spells, they get it. They know damned well that necromancer is evil. Yet here they are following him around capturing you? With the induction of evils to tribunal the RP of it was not addressed. It is countradictory, the entire cabal. Goodies hunting goodies, can have a point found, yet goodies WORKING with evils, to HUNT goodies, has taken it to an extreme. I will NEVER play a goodie again, and I will NEVER dream of making an avatar again for these simple reasons.

Now, two IMMS are defending everything tribunal related. EVERYTHING. Yet here we have the majority of the pbase upset in one way or another about the current situation, and it's all being shot down. Now dont' get me wrong. I agree the Tribunal need GREAT powers. Way too many enemies, and without a really skilled player they are nothing. Infact, I don't think their powers are strong enough. My issues have all been with individual skills, and of course, the RP contradictions that have no risen with the induction of evils to Tribunal.

Answer these questions please, and not with examples of real life bs. I ask them in game issues so please answer them with in game and/or game related situations and proof.

"However, being Avatar, the Imm's FORCED me to either give up avatar, or attack the vampire. So my RP has consequence, but it was FORCED."

Yes. That's part of being avatar. You gain some, you lose some. It's not all milk and cookies. Just like being caballed, you gain some, you lose some. I think the tradeoffs are more than in your favor here. This has ALWAYS been true for avatars, that they must attack evils, with no respect for the law. ALWAYS. And it has almost always resulted in outlaw avatars, and in avatars fighting good Justices. There is NO change, here.

"All your points have ended in blanks for me. Speak to me like I'm an utter retard please. Detect evil spells, they get it. They know damned well that necromancer is evil. Yet here they are following him around capturing you? With the induction of evils to tribunal the RP of it was not addressed. It is countradictory, the entire cabal. Goodies hunting goodies, can have a point found, yet goodies WORKING with evils, to HUNT goodies, has taken it to an extreme. I will NEVER play a goodie again, and I will NEVER dream of making an avatar again for these simple reasons."

Traditional 1.0 Justice WAS this way. It was only in 2.0 that it was changed so that evils couldn't be in Justice; in 1.0, the original Justice IMM was undead. This isn't anything new. Taken to an 'extreme'? No.

It's been stated numerous times in the past, Justice is the ONLY cabal in which ETHOS>ALIGNMENT. NUMEROUS times. This is true for Tribunal as well. There is NO change, again, here. They aren't supposed to give a crap about alignment, that's why Justice cabal was supposed to treat everyone equally, and protect everyone in town. And yes, for example, if a good attacked an evil in town, a good Justice would be expected to attack/apprehend the good, even if the evil continued to attack them outside town. There is NO real change here.

"Now, two IMMS are defending everything tribunal related. EVERYTHING. Yet here we have the majority of the pbase upset in one way or another about the current situation, and it's all being shot down."

No. One, 4-5 people does NOT constitute a majority of the pbase. Spamming the forum with many different Tribunal complaints in many different threads, STILL doesn't make a few of you turn into a majority of the pbase. Two, multiple changes HAVE been made specifically in response to pbase complaints, such as the most recent one which you can read in 'changes'. Three, we WILL explain our viewpoint on Tribunal related things if the complaints have no solid basis, ESPECIALLY if its complaints that are related to the way things worked exactly as they did in Justice.

"My issues have all been with individual skills, and of course, the RP contradictions that have no risen with the induction of evils to Tribunal."

Individual skills? No idea what you are talking about. RP contradictions? Are you kidding me?

What I'm hearing is this, and correct me if I'm wrong. "It's okay for good Tribunals to attack me, but not if there are evils attacking me." Sorry, doesn't make sense. Maybe from a gangbanging perspective. Not from an RP perspective.

Why are we shooting down almost everything in THIS thread? Because this thread has NOTHING to do with Tribunals, and everything to do with good vs good PK, which is a SETTLED matter, by Virigoth, with regards to Justice, for years now. SETTLED.