Assassinate

lol- i have killed people with other classes, and i think this is sad. All of you elites, and all the knowledge, that i had to fight to learn, and get damn good at. And when I do, and start owning people- I see an assassination is OP thread. Im not suprised, so- how about you roll a vamp? Undead Thief?

OR hell, just have some balls and play the game- you getting assassinated isnt the last thing that will ever happen to you, and to be honest, after I rip off the head of whatever "complainer" I find on this thread, I barley loot-

But no, when a ninja dies- you full loot him, knowing its going to take a while for a ninja solo to get his eq. and even then, perhaps bashlock him naked.

You will find no sympathy from me, nor even deserving of my pity.

That is all.

Edited. No flaming, no personal attacks.

Assassinate is not OP skill, but f0xx is right for one thing:ninjas should be more stealthy oriented.If you ask me, they should be half like monks, because ninjas as we all know, are specialized at martial arts.

What they have now is one stupid blindness dust that does level 48 blind, nerve that takes -2 str and caltraps that never use to work.Ninjitsu as a whole is just a joke aswell.

Edited. Inappropriate.

Brehan edit: Done.

That is exactly how every player feels when it plays a melee ninja - first you start the normal way, then you see that one can get easy kills with assassinate ninja, then you roll one. You like it so much that you start persuading first yourself and then the others that the skill is OK and you kill people because you are good with it. Alas.

I am sorry to break your bubble, but as it has been mentioned, studying one while he fights someone else equals ganging.

Running around someone to get a tick or two of study requires next to no skill as well. Spamming assassinate? One must have some leet skills to do that.

Don't take it as a personal flame Atticus, there have been thousands of threads about the way assassinate works - about how easy it is study someone, about the incredible successful rate of assassinations, even when the target is awake, sanced, poisoned and boosted in every possible way.

A short history of the assassination threads:

Skia - Skia, who later returned and assassinated once again a ton of people with a complete lack of RP while wearing a basic suit. The player is not banned for nothing.

Phamane - Guess who played her?

Kaylia - Who was a lotus scourge ninja. The words which the_nightmare used when saying lotus scourge is weak are hers. Also, the words that assassinate should go belong to her as well.

More threads discussing assassinate:

Number 1

Number 2

Number 3

Number 4

Number 5

Number 6

Number 7

Number 8

... the threads go on like that and I am sure I've missed a lot. And that's not including the recent locked one.

@the_nightmare: For once I agree with him. Hell, if he realizes (and agrees with me) then I (we) must really have a point

i think you guys are tripping.

And I love how you guys are turning the ninja class, and assassinate into a debate. Ninja are meant to be dirty, and jump from the shadows.

And yet another edit.

p.s.- im not in a cabal, and Im not a q-class, so, ganging isn't against the rules.

to all- I spammed assassinate once, on Grum- worst Idea ever. wouldn't ever advise it.

Now lets here the stabs- I really dont care anymore, all these Vets crying hahah

Let's stop the dickweaving here, I want to tell you that this topic has nothing to do with you personally.I agree with one think that many people mentioned here including f0xx.Ninjas has to be more stealthy.What they got now is crap.Blindness dust that makes 48 level blind, nerve that takes -2str(damn funny) and caltraps that doesn't work.Not to mention the completely useless ninjitsu which is one joke.

I think that ninjas have to be somewhat like monks.We all know that ninjas are masters at martial arts, it would be nice if they strike at weak points or something of the sort.

OK, so I have a 50 ninja, but I haven't really played one for a while... Having said that, how exactly would you like a ninja to be able to kill someone??? I agree with Pali in that their stealth path should be more stealthy, but in reality, when was the last time a melee ninja owned anyone??? Given all the comments, there may be two ways to adjust them so that studying is harder... The first would be if you become visible during a tick, you lose the study that tic (no more running in and out of hiding)... The second being that you can't study a player who is in combat (no more cabal standard camping)... It has been a long time but I think I remember there are some things that will keep you from being studied as well...

All I am saying is that if you gimp assassinate too hard, what is left for ninjas???

Let's see how ninjitsu works:

Death kiss:Completely useless ninjitsu that never one picks because there aren't sleeping targets at all.

Lotus scourge:Completely useless ninjitsu because the target is 99% already poisoned.

Doublesheath:Somewhat useful ninjitsu but with my last ninja Zevran I found it useful only on targets that are equiped in crap, it does VERY random damage aswell so you cannot rely on it.90% of the throws I would hit for just funny damage, even my grandma would throw these shurikens more deadly.

Shadowarts:-1 random stat on a round and the effects wears off after two ticks.Are you kidding me?

Falcon eye:You would love it simply because other four suck hard.

All I am saying is that if you gimp assassinate too hard, what is left for ninjas???

I agree with this- might as well just change the class name to fodder if you gimp it anymore.

Now that's another question.

Ninjas need to be changed so their other paths become actually alluring.

I agree with anything that nightmare said.

First of all, doublesheath should be a native skill, not a ninjitsu.

Lotus scourge should have 100% success rate to land if the target is already poisoned.

Shadow arts should be able to be customizable. You either choose which stat to target or you go with random stats but more damage.

Caltraps should land no matter whether the target is flying or not.

I also believe ninjas need a skill, something like a stance that allows them to avoid bashes, if they choose it.

The idea about changing ninjas can really be expanded on. I am only willing to put any thoughts (time) into it if given green light by the imms though. I've posted before ideas about how to improve the other ninjitu paths, which have simply been ignored.

PS. Zevran was (is) a very strong ninja. An example of what a melee ninja should be like.

I just love how you can have an Ogre Avatar, or a pimped out Crusader that just runs through everything you throw at him.

But when a ninja gets good- this happens.

Thanks for the kind words f0xx but something really needs to be done about this class as a whole. SIGH.

ROFL.

I remember that time in the Elf Valley. I simply refuse to log off and hamper my fun because someone wants to be lame and study me while I fight.

And don't get me wrong people, I've always been against the whole assassinate game, but it's been gimped so much in the last several months it's not even funny. I rolled a ninja (death kiss) who was a complete and utter failure. I assure you, pre-ninja changes, I would have done decent.

Then again, I rolled that ninja during the time I had 0 connection goodness, and probably didn't do well because I lost so much interest.. heheh.

Why does age play a factor? jeeze "Dickweaving" lmao

If I have to hand out forum bans to get a MATURE POLITE discussion going, I'll do so. Last warning.

You do not have to resort to personal insults and namecalling to get a point across.

To throw in some facts in all the assuming:

There have been several ninja changes already. There might be one more in the near future.

I think that crux of this is that people don't like that you can't be fully in-control of the situation when you have a ninja studying you. You never know exactly what kind of study they have on you, and it sucks when you underestimate that. Many people here know the lands very well, and feel pretty comfortable that if their HP gets too low in a normal fight, they can run away.

That does not, however, make the skill wrong. Ninjas are not easier to kill with than other classes. They just have a higher proportion of 'high profile' kills among their PKs than others - ie, people that don't die much. I guarantee that if I compare average PK ratio of all ninjas to other classes, it would be lower. I further guarantee that if I compare the average PK ratio of all ninjas with above 20 kills (ie, ruling out newbies that might drag down the mean) to other classes, it would be lower.

Some of you are quoting that you can assassinate with a ninja in 7 ticks. As Pali pointed out, this is not even true. Assuming it was, I bet 70% of my PK battles are decided in far far less than 7 ticks. If you think that you being distracted by fighting a cabal war doesn't translate to other classes, you're being short-sighted. If you haven't prepared for a character and I've prepped for you fully, nine times out of ten I'll run over you like a freight train. Ninjas don't assassinate you nine times out of ten in that situation. You're also completely setting aside the fact that it is NOT just that easy to be next to someone 7 ticks in a row without putting yourself in some serious danger.

As my last point, I'll point out the commonly referred to statement of "I've only been assassinated X numbers of times in X number of years here". I strongly believe that if you compare the number of times you've been assassinated by a ninja to kills by other individual classes, it's not much of a comparison. What does that mean? Getting assassinated by a ninja sucks more mentally. You don't get to see it coming, analyzing your interaction and picking points of error isn't quite as easy, and you probably feel they don't 'deserve' to have killed you because you could've pummeled their face into the ground in melee a hundred times over.

My thoughts - stop whining because you (collectively) aren't invincible after "having played for X years".

Zhokril, the problem here comes from a few things:

First, it comes with how easy it is to fully study someone.

Secondly, after all, this is a one hit skill.

Thirdly, it can not be countered.

Fourthly, what is the RP behind assassinate?

With lethal speed, you strike from the shadows and +++ ASSASSINATE +++ Bla bla!

Fifthly, an experienced player can pump up his chance to getting a successful assassinate to almost 100% even without the target being asleep.

And lastly, let us be honest - ninjas in general suck and any other ninjitsu sucks. What is the incentive to play a melee ninja when you can be an assassinate ninja?

With this post I walk away from this thread. Even Zhokril's post didn't give an adequate answer to why do we need to have a one hit kill skill that works the way assassinate works. I can understand variety and its value, but then on the other hand there is balance and when you are facing a one-hit-kill-skill that can not be countered in any way, then you know balance is not present.

I don't care about the assassinate as I said it is fine, but ninjas at all are very gimped.I would be very happy to see them updated.

First' date=' it comes with how easy it is to fully study someone.[/quote']

Every post you have made regarding this has exaggerated greatly how easy it is to fully study someone. I do not think you have an accurate understanding of the subject.

Secondly, after all, this is a one hit skill.

One hit, AFTER a fair bit of work has been done. It's not like you can just walk up to anyone and kill them instantly.

Thirdly, it can not be countered.

I'm actually not sure if this is accurate - I've got some fuzzy memories of assassinate attempts being countered by awake warriors before, but I could very well be wrong.

Fourthly, what is the RP behind assassinate?

I've watched you for hours and know your habits and reactions well enough that I can get close to you and hit a weak spot in your armor.

Fifthly, an experienced player can pump up his chance to getting a successful assassinate to almost 100% even without the target being asleep.

Yes, one can get enough of a study and a high enough hitroll that one landing the assassinate is extremely likely. So?

And lastly, let us be honest - ninjas in general suck and any other ninjitsu sucks. What is the incentive to play a melee ninja when you can be an assassinate ninja?

I agree - so why are you arguing that we take away the most successful path a ninja can still take?

Even Zhokril's post didn't give an adequate answer to why do we need to have a one hit kill skill that works the way assassinate works. I can understand variety and its value, but then on the other hand there is balance and when you are facing a one-hit-kill-skill that can not be countered in any way, then you know balance is not present.

First off, nowhere in Zhok's post do I see him trying to explain the bare existence of assassinate and why we need it - instead he's trying to explain why people react to it as negatively as they do, despite it being really a small part of the game and a small part of how many deaths occur.

You keep saying assassinate cannot be countered in any way - and yet we have 10-year vets who have never died to it, and it's not because they just logged off every time a ninja was on - it's because they used the basic ninja avoidance strategies of staying on the move and out of the cities.

Yes, it sucks that a ninja can study and kill you while you're in the middle of fighting someone else, and you don't necessarily see it coming. It also sucks being a class susceptible to a warrior bashing you into the ground when that happens - frankly, I see far less skill involved in such a thing than in pulling off an assassinate. There are plenty of situations in this game that it sucks to be on the down side of - this should not be news to anyone here.

Lol, here comes Pali...

Alright, I will try to reply in your style:

Every post you have made regarding this has exaggerated greatly how easy it is to fully study someone. I do not think you have an accurate understanding of the subject.

My post, if exaggerated at all, are only slightly. A skilled ninja can and WILL fully study you and assassinate you all that in less than five minutes. While you can detect hidden too.

One hit' date=' AFTER a fair bit of work has been done. It's not like you can just walk up to anyone and kill them instantly.[/quote']

Perhaps your understanding of "fair bit of work" and mine are a bit different. By a fair bit of work, I understand tackling your enemy for days (real life time days), creating complexed tactics about making him come up with wrong conclusions, leading him into areas better suited for you, draining him from his consumables. That is what I get for "fair bit of work". Not running around my victim, without even putting my sanc up, without wasting any consumables with wearing only a mithril suit for five minutes.

I'm actually not sure if this is accurate - I've got some fuzzy memories of assassinate attempts being countered by awake warriors before' date=' but I could very well be wrong.[/quote']

Awake warriors can not counter assassinate. No matter what fuzzy memories you've got, thats how things are.

I've watched you for hours and know your habits and reactions well enough that I can get close to you and hit a weak spot in your armor.

Alright, I can understand that. BUT, how come you can get close enough to me while I see you and strike that weak spot while I know you know my weak spot and will be trying to strike it? You logic is solid, but only if the assassins is played like an assassin, and not like melee, and we are back to the need to be stealthy or assassinate landing only on sleeping victims.

Yes' date=' one can get enough of a study and a high enough hitroll that one landing the assassinate is extremely likely. So?[/quote']

So that means I should be able to kill ANYONE? You really have no idea how fast and easy it is to study someone, do you?

I agree - so why are you arguing that we take away the most successful path a ninja can still take?

Hehe, are you serious? I want to make ninjas better so we see a wider variety of ninjas, not just assassinate ones. I am not trying to take away the ninja path, I am just trying to make it correct from an RP point of view and for the sake of PK balance. That's like saying that the whip lore for warriors is good enough so no need to bother changing the rest, since you already have one good lore...

And I am sure we all know why we don't like assassinate. What I don't know is why we need to keep assassinate the way it is? That is what I asked and that is what noone has answer yet.

Skills that can not be countered are not good for the game. One hit kill skills that can not be countered are just too much.

Also, really, why do we keep comparing assassinate to bash? If you think bash is broken (which I think it is, but that is a subject to a completely different discussion), then hell, make a thread and we will discuss it. I know I have done that in the past too. But once again, using a broken skill as an excuse for the existence of another broken skill is simply not right. And bash (just as any normal skill) CAN be countered (hindered).