Cabals' date=' as you know, have their own goals and RP behind them. [/quote']
Right answer, wrong question. Not "what is the purpose of this cabal or that cabal?" but what is the purpose of having cabals in the game? Why have clans? (This is leading somewhere. I just want to have my facts right.)
Cabal entrance lowered to 30 Again.
To add some flavour, I would suppose. To turn FL into a living, breathing world with rivalling factions that squabble for land, or fight for greater purpose. With clans as a feeder system, that Caballers are brought from. There's probably a more in-depth explanation of what the two are, but I know you're playing devil's advocate to raise a point. 
The way I see it, is that a Cabal, with it's set goals to achieve, is going to want the best within their ranks (Interchange 'best' with 'pinned'). Is it going to want to have to bring aboard lesser-experienced (interchange 'lesser-skilled' with 'non-pinns') people to fight for their cause? Of course not...except for special circumstances, such as if the lesser-experienced person has displayed excellent that would be of benefit for the Cabal, or if Cabals numbers are ridiculously low and need boosting from the little people willing to apply. I also think individual Cabal roles come into play; Herald would be more likely to take on non-pinned chars, as opposed to Nexus, say.
Again, just my thoughts.
Dey
True' date=' however from my experience it is MUCH easier to just pinn and then get caballed. If you rp well, do your clanquests (lazy buggers.) and are not horrible at pk it should not take too long.[/quote']
Doesnt matter how well you kill when you an inductee, with no extra skills compared to a class that is elder and you have to fight that knowing you will die everytime and con die before you even become a member. Also there are some very fine players rp wise that have never had a pinn because of the vultures so to speak, and now because of the mindset of the imms they will never benifit the cabals they wish to join. As well there are still a service the cabal provides that is totally nulled by mainly letting level 50s in. I dont care this isnt my mud I will just state it would be nice. And as far as those that cant see the point who I will mention stated they wernt around back when they were allowed I guess you just wouldnt understand not ever having a rank 30 to 35 anything.(not a flame) One last thing why not make all the cabal skills level 50 skills then, because its really dumb to have a lvl 30 skill then you know damn well a level thirty will never have it again. Sorry if this sounds a little assholish but I quite smoking two days ago.
People are allowed to be inducted at earlier ranks than fifty. The thing is, that Cabals are a privilege, and many people find it hard to get in at fifty, so getting in at thirty is going to be a chore. Even if you were to let people in at thirty, it takes time for a Cabal Imm to watch over you and assess your PK/RP/clan-quests/whatever else they assess to let you in. So to get in at earlier ranks, you'd have to be spending an awful lot of time down there. Training, IMO, doesn't count, just as it doesn't with Qrace/Qclass apps. So ask yourself: Why would you want to be getting Caballed at 30-45, spending time down there just to get Caballed early when the time could be spent getting pinned first? And note, in that question, I am excluding special cases whereby somebody has been so impressive through their natural ranking and whatnot they're let in early. I'm talking more about the proposed letting people join Cabals at thirty thing.
And as far as those that cant see the point who I will mention stated they wernt around back when they
were allowed I guess you just wouldnt understand not ever having a rank 30 to 35 anything.
It's not like that anymore, though. I can understand it if it's a seriously chore getting to fifty, with intense PK all around the PK ranges and whatnot, but I will say with the utmost confidence that a newbie could pinn their very first character and not be close to doneath.
Dey
Sorry if this sounds a little assholish but I quite smoking two days ago.
dude that is the most valid reason to be an a**hole anyday man, apology accepted.
so you are saying that cabals are fun fun toys for the pinns?
back when I played in 2.0 at the beginning i remember having characters at the thirties all the time and loved it, but I never reached my pinn with about 5 cabaled characters I had in all of 2.0, because I always got caught up in cabal stuff. I miss having a cabaled character at 30 and would prolly try for it if given the chance, but I think the current way of doing things is a lot better. And anyways if you used to join cabals to help you rank faster, well thats why we have clans now.
Im not going to respond to this anymore because some people just dont get it so screw it. I guess if you have never had say a lvl 35 warmaster/savant/nexus/knight/anything you truely wouldnt know the rp it would take to actually benifit a cabal at these ranks. I just dont see the point in not having pre 50 members, and no im not talking a damn lvl 46. Lets look into history of fact and fiction. you think a Knight just woke up one day and was a knight? no he probably started as a stableboy a page whatever. A sorcerer no a scholar. And yes I know you can rp that in the clan however there is no more gratification as being lvl 34 and just hitting lvl 35 and using that new cool skill/spell to help in your travels to pinn. sorry but this is just a subject I am very adament about and you might not agree or like or respect anything I have to say but you know what I dont care. I will not post here again. starting to really jive for a smoke now.
And yes a cabal is a privlidge, but it is a privlidge that shouldnt only be reserved for pinns but for anyone above thirty who deserves a damn shot.
^^
Amen, Teralis.
so you are saying that cabals are fun fun toys for the pinns?
Not neccassarily. The way Cabals work is IMO, more geared towards players at their Pinn, however that is not to say pre-pinns cannot get involved. I am not against pre-pinns Caballed, but rather, opening it up so that pre-pinns within a Cabal is the norm. For the reasons Valforian posted, Cabal stuff can detract from your ranking/training.
Again, I am not against pre-pinned Caballers, but having every cat and their dog's uncle who's not at their pinn in Cabals, as if it is just the norm. Pre-pinned Caballers should IMO, be selected if they are of a high calibre of player. It wouldn't hurt to see a couple more pre-pinned Caballers, I agree with, but again, on a selective basis by the Imms, not loweing the application level to thirty. Because it just doesn't seem right to me, that a Pinn can log on, with three enemy Caballers of a lower rank who can't attack the pinn, and take their standard with no opposition - it doesn't seem right to have it as a normality, to have a lot of Caballers on who can't hold their duties up against people outside of their PK range. It certaintly doesn't make sense RP-wise for Knight's to go inducting a ton of thirties who can't do jack to a load of pinned Nexus. Why would you want people in your Cabal who can't uphold your Cabal's aims by not being able to fight with opponents, not being able to properly defend standards/altars, and not being able to take the Cabal Guard because of their too-low rank?
I might well not have had a rank 30 Warmaster or whatnot, but that doesn't matter. We are no longer in 1.0/2.0, how things used to be, we're in the latest era of FL, with how things are now. Just posting my own opinion based from my time in this era.
Dey
I know I said I woudnt but I had to, who said anything about lowering the application level, wouldnt have to if you would read the help files. here ill show you one.
[WARMASTER] ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS:
You must be between 15 and 51 in your rank and of Good\Neutral\Evil alignment.
Following Lawful\Neutral\Chaotic races and classes will be considered:
Race: human elf drow dwarf duergar halfling gnome avian fire stone storm minotaur slith feral werebeast half-elf ogre
Class: War Ber Ran Thi Mon Bla
Scribe an "application to Warmaster" if you wish to be considered for membership.
Only one thing I can understand is rank sitting, I will agree that qrace, qclass things should be done as well as training otherwise we would have a cabal of 10 members all at 40 training. I think that could be fixed and understood that being allowed to enter said cabal at 30 would mean that you must try to rank to pinn in an adequate amount of time. There are many ways to make sure that a member will reach the top in a fair given time. As well you say why would I want someone who cannot attack that lvl 50 nexus well hell would you send a stableboy to kill a lord very doubtful.
Please also see the "Cabals" thread started by Krins in the "Newbie" forum. Here's the link:
"*Cabal entrance lowered to 30 Again. *"
Thread title implies lowering the application level to thirty.
I don't want to keep harping on about it, but I stick firmly by my argument. Not saying anybody is wrong, as this is a debate, and as such, I am open to changing my view if I am convinced, but I just haven't read anything that justifies opening Cabals to pre-pinns as a normality as opposed to how the system is now; Pinns, and special circumstances. Especially considering how each character's personal goal, is to ultimately reach pinn, along with the rest of my reasons.
Let's just agree to disagree, Teralis. 
Dey
Please also see the "Cabals" thread started by Krins in the "Newbie" forum. Here's the link:
Thanks. Kept me from repeating a bunch of crap.
Please also see the "Cabals" thread started by Krins in the "Newbie" forum. Here's the link:
Im not going to go all into alot of that thread but this, everything I saw there was people saying they moved the entracne to 50 because they want to save me the hasstle and heart ache. I just dont know I am a 33 year old man if I want heart ache I think Ill find it somehow there are after all no mommies playing here lol. And here I was thinking we chose where we would like our char to go.
As far as promotions go yes they come quickly enough but say your a knight do you know how long that set amount of hours actually seems when you have to stick around or every time you log on you see three pinn trusted nexus, this is what happens. defend home, get killed, retrieve standard, get killed bfore returning it, get mithril, get killed retrieving standard rinse repeat all this so you can log some hours so you can get to member and to think you have to do this what 3 times all the while this is happening. laugh
Doesnt matter how well you kill when you an inductee' date=' with no extra skills compared to a class that is elder and you have to fight that knowing you will die everytime and con die before you even become a member. Also there are some very fine players rp wise that have never had a pinn because of the vultures so to speak, and now because of the mindset of the imms they will never benifit the cabals they wish to join. As well there are still a service the cabal provides that is totally nulled by mainly letting level 50s in. I dont care this isnt my mud I will just state it would be nice. And as far as those that cant see the point who I will mention stated they wernt around back when they were allowed I guess you just wouldnt understand not ever having a rank 30 to 35 anything.(not a flame) One last thing why not make all the cabal skills level 50 skills then, because its really dumb to have a lvl 30 skill then you know damn well a level thirty will never have it again. Sorry if this sounds a little assholish but I quite smoking two days ago.
You're playing the wrong class then. I can think of two cabal elders off the top of my head I can rip apart at 50 uncabaled.
You're playing the wrong class then. I can think of two cabal elders off the top of my head I can rip apart at 50 uncabaled.
How can you think of stuff like that off the top of your head, when it's that big? ;)
Dey
You're playing the wrong class then. I can think of two cabal elders off the top of my head I can rip apart at 50 uncabaled.
I wasnt speaking for me Ive been playing ten years, I am talking about others that are not as skilled, quick, knowledgeable of armor weaon etc...etc.
sorry I just dont agree, im going for a walk with the kids need some air.
I wasnt speaking for me Ive been playing ten years' date=' I am talking about others that are not as skilled, quick, knowledgeable of armor weaon etc...etc.[/quote']
It comes as a given, that a less skilled player, who isn't as quick, or with a knowledge of armor/weapons, will get ripped apart by enemy Caballers; that's the price a newer player has to pay by joining a Cabal, which requires a decent amount of skill to be succesful in. Not saying it's not fun, or that lesser-skilled players should be left out; Heck, look at Luris trying to defend the Knight's castle alone, with three Nexus and two Watchers about. But letting people join at low ranks as a norm, for the reason that they'll be well-promoted by the time they pinn isn't a good reason IMO; Cabals are meant to be hard, and if somebody has trouble fighting enemy Cabals without their promotions, well they'll have to suck it up, as it's the price they've paid joining.
Dey