Re Teralis: It IS possible to get in most cabals pre 50, it is just so much harder. If you have that wish, make sure your cabal imm is aware of it and see what happens. I've had a rank 36 wm, it was fun but I died a lot more than usual due to rank disadanvatage. Cabal duties can make gaining ranks pretty ugly.
What will be close to impossible is getting a rank 30 waiting for some app into a cabal. If you get caballed you are expected to gain your last ranks fast and participate in cabal wf.
The rank for application to a cabal has not changed. The help files are correct. It is a misnomer to say "lower it to 30" when the application minimum rank is 15. 2.0 doesn't apply because friends let all their other friends in and the quality of cabal life deteriorated rapidly. There is NO mandate from the IMPs to the IMMs on when they have to allow their clannies to apply. If they want to allow earlier entry into the cabals, that is the prerogative of the individual cabal IMMs. We have always given them free reign to run their cabals how they choose.
Bottom line: If you want in early, impress the hell out of your cabal IMMs.
It comes as a given, that a less skilled player, who isn't as quick, or with a knowledge of armor/weapons, will get ripped apart by enemy Caballers; that's the price a newer player has to pay by joining a Cabal, which requires a decent amount of skill to be succesful in. Not saying it's not fun, or that lesser-skilled players should be left out; Heck, look at Luris trying to defend the Knight's castle alone, with three Nexus and two Watchers about. But letting people join at low ranks as a norm, for the reason that they'll be well-promoted by the time they pinn isn't a good reason IMO; Cabals are meant to be hard, and if somebody has trouble fighting enemy Cabals without their promotions, well they'll have to suck it up, as it's the price they've paid joining.
Dey
You are absolutly right being in a cabal is very hard path and I dont think anyone shouldnt be able to make that decision at rank 30 35 40 45 50 of thier own accord, for someone to tell my level 35 kick *** guy sorry I dont want you in because it will be to hard, hmm know what its hard at 30 its hard at 50 if someone goes cabal beleive me they know what they are getting themselves into and they dont need someone telling them they are being protected. I damn sure dont play my video games on easy mode so why would I want to here. I love a challenge. And no i am not argueing this point because I have some bob lvl 30 i want caballed. I have a pinn like everyone else. I have allways disagreed with it but I didnt say I didnt conform to it.
Re Teralis: It IS possible to get in most cabals pre 50' date=' it is just so much harder. If you have that wish, make sure your cabal imm is aware of it and see what happens. I've had a rank 36 wm, it was fun but I died a lot more than usual due to rank disadanvatage. Cabal duties can make gaining ranks pretty ugly.[/quote']
I do understand all of that I am just saying that if someone is saw as worthy and they know what they are getting into they should be given the chance to prove themselves is all. They shouldnt have a need to be saved from a harder life then most.
The rank for application to a cabal has not changed. The help files are correct. It is a misnomer to say "lower it to 30" when the application minimum rank is 15. 2.0 doesn't apply because friends let all their other friends in and the quality of cabal life deteriorated rapidly. There is NO mandate from the IMPs to the IMMs on when they have to allow their clannies to apply. If they want to allow earlier entry into the cabals, that is the prerogative of the individual cabal IMMs. We have always given them free reign to run their cabals how they choose.
Bottom line: If you want in early, impress the hell out of your cabal IMMs.
I will agree with this I sat back and watched everyone who knows everyone else on Icq, aim whatever letting in only thier friends. However with the imm allowing one to apply is a great idea they just need to be a little more lenient of only letting pinns in when you see that lvl 35 who rps great and pks great never out of char etc..I am really not trying to this big of a hastle but this is just something that has been bugging me since I returned after the changover.
Bottom line: If you want in early' date=' impress the hell out of your cabal IMMs.[/quote']
I thought you had to impress the hell out of the cabal IMM if you wanted in at 50? So at 50, you can get voted in?
I had typed up a long, wordy post… but it was so long it even annoyed me. (Yes, it was longer than this one.)
The point is that the middle class has been forgotten twice. Newbies and Vets are taken care of. Average players are not. Lowbies and Pinns are taken care of. Chars from 16 to 49 are not.
My Useless Thoughts
So what is the answer? I don’t know. I really feel that the middle ground is being neglected. But I can’t say that letting in lvl 30 chars into cabals is the answer. My two ideas are to open up cabals to at least 45 if not 42 and the other is to spice up clans. I’m not saying that they need powers, but why not give something small to members or higher? Include them more. Get them involved in stuff. Right before I took my last little work inspired break, it was put out in great detail that clan members were not in interfere with cabal wars. While that type of interaction totally threw off game balance, it cut away at part of the apparent purpose of the clan. Give the other characters and players a little love.
I thought you had to impress the hell out of the cabal IMM if you wanted in at 50? So at 50' date=' you can get voted in?[/quote']
Impress the hell out of them more to get in early.
seriouly... that was only half a joke and half serious. You can get voted in at 50?
seriouly... that was only half a joke and half serious. You can get voted in at 50?
Yes and no. You must be allowed to apply by the cabal IMM, regardless of rank. Your application is then voted on by the cabal members, regardless of rank.
EDIT: Bottom line: Everyone must be allowed to apply by the cabal IMM, everyone must be voted in.
No, you can't. A lot of old 1.0's will remember their first chars that got caballed didn't rock, and definitely weren't 50. The only reason I ever got to 50 was because some imm took me up and put me in a cabal (I didn't even think about applying). In fact, all of my early characters applied to their cabals at rank 23. I remember having a rank 42(or 43?) cabal elder. The only way I was able to prove I was any good was to beat such strong players at such a disadvantage and it jumpstarted me to leader (when I hit 50). Cabals should be learning tools, not tools to make the strong stronger. In fact, if it were possible, I would say that good players shouldn't have the advantage of cabals..but of course that is absurd. I completely agree with Myrek on this one.
Yes and no. You must be allowed to apply by the cabal IMM, regardless of rank. Your application is then voted on by the cabal members, regardless of rank.
EDIT: Bottom line: Everyone must be allowed to apply by the cabal IMM, everyone must be voted in.
Thanks. I know I'm an ***, but I really didn't know.
Re Myrek: What you forget is that every cabal just has 9 spots + 1 Imm leader. Many of us do induct newbies or semi-newbies, just usually not in the lower ranks. Unfortunately many of them get scared fast and just do not log often instead of condeathing fast. This results in cabals with many members who are not overly active. It is also often hard for the cabal Imm to determine if they will be back or not, sometimes someone just needs a couple days break when things got too ugly. If we not only allow in a few less experienced players but also another couple non pinns, we will weaken our cabal extremely as there will be only few spots left for pinned chars who carry the most weight in cabal wf. As stated before it is not impossible to get in earlier but you have to convince your cabal Imm that you will not be a lead ball on the other caballed chars legs.
What Eshaine said.
There never was any 'discussion' or 'consensus' or 'agreement' by the IMM's to limit cabals primarily to pinns/near pinns.
It just sort of happened, because we got tired of having lowbies taking spots. Getting to 50, everything else asides, shows at least a minimum amount of dedication, and with a larger investment (all that ranking/training), people are less likely to just up and delete as well, for the most part.
I have a idea but I dunno if it would work, maybe make it so you can apply at rank 15 or whatever rank if you are trusted in your clan, but when you join put a 10 day time limit for them to hit their pinn or else they are demoted out of the cabal? That way people will have to try hard to get to 50 and fast, and from even rank 15 it is definatly possible to hit pinn in 10 days just gotta make sure that you log on a ton if you want to get any training done.
if someone is saw as worthy and they know what they are getting into they should be given the chance to prove themselves is all. They shouldnt have a need to be saved from a harder life then most.
I cannot speak for other cabal immortals, so this only my point of view.
In my experience, the vast majority of players who join Tribunal don't know what they're getting into. This is evident in a number of ways: dying repeatedly, failing to capture criminals, incorrectly enforcing laws, etc...
The rank 50 requirement for Tribunal is designed to cater to the most inexperienced players. Forcing them to reach rank 50 and then having them go through a rather easy induction process ensures that they get the most out of their stay in Tribunal, which I am certain for quite a few players is the first time any of their characters has joined a cabal other than Herald.
I am fully aware that many players do not need me to treat them with kiddie gloves. Understand, however, that I am just being fair. I cannot alter the system to cater to each and every player; a rank requirement for some means a rank requirement for all. If this means veterans have to reach rank 50 before joining Tribunal, so be it. Making sure new players have fun in Tribunal is well worth it.
Furthermore, veterans players that join Tribunal are not losing out in any way. They would have reached rank 50 anyways. They would be going through a system of induction in which the hardest part is simply reading and understanding laws. They would have just as much fun as in any other cabal. They would reach ranks in Tribunal that inexperienced players cannot.
You still suggested they had medium pk value Eshaine. I said STRICTLY role play, which to me means no pk whatsoever. Are you saying that you let someone into a cabal just from their role play. That was my point. Cabals are centered around role play AND player killing. NOT just role play and NOT just player killing(Even though I believe it's easier to get in through pk than it is for role play, just my personal opinion.) Obviously Herald is the exception to this rule. Anything is possible as many have said, but I'm just generalizing.
Wathok I am not disagreeing with everything you say, Ill use Tribunal as an example. I understand that a lvl 35 with a blood guard will do nearly nothing to a rank 50. I had experienced this with Teralis when he was not a Hero I would just kill the guard and walk on, shoot even as a Hero I would do the same. However there are criminals at all ranks all the way down to teen ranks due to thier rp and even within the thirties. Having a 50 tribunal tracking and hunting a lvl 35 a the fifty has alot more moves as well as they can spell thief guards up and heal them after the criminal flees and will eventually capture them with no worry of harm to the 50. Now Im a lvl 35 warrior criminal as all hell if I am being attacked by a cabal charmie I sure as heck would like to at least be able to touch the fool who keeps bringing this thing to me. I know that an argument could be said to just rank up and get em back but thats not really the point. I have an Idea that i know I am just talking into the wind but I will say it anyway.
Eshane stated there are 9 cabal spots open with another slot for cabal imm. Ok I think we could say have 5 dedicated pinns 2 members above fourty and 2 members above 30/35 leaving 9. Now these other four will eventually rank and obtain thier pinn ( I cannot see why they wouldnt) then when one dies off which it happens quite frequently due to cabal warfare or just deleteing, it can be up to the imms to chose which spot to refill, I know the imms allready have thier hands full snooping thier members, clannies, as well as other players for just about anything, but I think this is where the player run cabal/clan part can come in with trusted/elder members watching and reporting on said worthy member like the good old days. This will also improve some rp between trusted and higher members and the imms they pledge thier loyalties to. As is I do not think imms invoke rp with many of thier lower members of the clan. And beleive me I know they are busy but if it were me I woud take the time to at least start somekind of rp with even an inductee just to see what they wish for thier futures, alot of time that would tell me weather someone is dedicated and will stick to a char especially when I am getting some kind of interaction from someone whose beleifs are much the same as my own. I know you would say its not allways up to the imms to initiate rp well I agree and disagree. I agree that they should initiate as much rp as possible and beleive me I try or do but in many cases some imms not all and I wont name names either dont even respond or makes one coment and then wizinvis. I have seen some imms that have impressed me like Eshaine when Aryae(sp sorry) got married with her beast pet only two people showed to that out of like 8 clannies, Eshaine and Iozui and that was pretty cool.
I am sorry this is getting way to long, I guess overall I really enjoyed how it used to be and wish it back sorry for my ramblings, I know about now the imms are about to ban me hehe.
I have a idea but I dunno if it would work' date=' maybe make it so you can apply at rank 15 or whatever rank if you are trusted in your clan, but when you join put a 10 day time limit for them to hit their pinn or else they are demoted out of the cabal? That way people will have to try hard to get to 50 and fast, and from even rank 15 it is definatly possible to hit pinn in 10 days just gotta make sure that you log on a ton if you want to get any training done.[/quote']
That dont allways work either some clans will not promote you no matter how many quests you complete. With my current char I must have completed 100 or more quests and was a member from rank 30 to rank 50 then got veteran, then trusted only after pinn. So to have even a rank 30 trusted is out of the question in most cases.
Now Im a lvl 35 warrior criminal as all hell if I am being attacked by a cabal charmie I sure as heck would like to at least be able to touch the fool who keeps bringing this thing to me.
We're not letting you touch the fool because the fool would annihilate you. The current way at least gives you a chance at survival.
An alternative to your ranking up solution is don't commit the crime if you can't do the time. This will not count against your low-ranked character's roleplay even if your character is chaotic because we are sympathetic to this issue, which is unfortunabely unavoidable if Tribunal is to enforce laws.
