Riona (h-drow cleric) vs Danpher (halfling thief)

Steps in the Meadow

  You are standing upon the halfway point on the strange wide stairway

constructed out of metals unknown to you.  Its surface now vibrates lightly

as if forces powerful and potent were coursing below your feet towards a

source ahead.  

[Exits: +north east +south]

|1056hp 885m 380mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 0'00 hours> s

Your poison scratches you.

|1055hp 885m 380mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 0'00 hours> The antimagic springs!

Sensing the antimagic's magical aura you partialy resist its effect.

You feel a brief tingling sensation.

|1055hp 885m 380mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 0'00 hours> n

Danpher rides in.

|1055hp 885m 380mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 0'00 hours>

You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Danpher!'

Danpher executes 'Steel Storm'.

Danpher's slash grazes you.

Danpher's slash hits you.

Danpher's slash wounds you.

Danpher's kick wounds you.

Danpher's slash mauls you.

Dazed by the attacks you lose some mana.

Your faith holding fast, you stop the blow with Volgathras's power.

Danpher kicks dirt in your eyes!

Danpher's kicked dirt scratches you.

You can't see a thing!

Someone's slash devastates you!

Your faith holding fast, you stop the blow with Volgathras's power.

Someone's slash misses you.

Someone's pierce decimates you!

Someone's pierce devastates you!

You feel something drawing your life away.

Someone's life drain scratches you.

You are shocked by the lightning from something.

Someone's shocking bite hits you.

You can feel something dig into your body.

Someone's wrath mauls you.

Your steel shards maul someone.

Someone throws his something and hits you with one of them.

Someone's throw LACERATES you!

Someone's slash decimates you!

Someone's chest kick grazes you.

Someone's slash devastates you!

Someone's pierce maims you!

Someone's slash decimates you!

Your faith holding fast, you stop the blow with Volgathras's power.

Your steel shards wound someone.

Your poison scratches you.

Someone dodges your attack.

Someone parries your attack.

Someone sidesteps your attack.

Someone's circle sidestep hits you.

A shifting fractal pendant glimmers with a divine intensity.

You are already armored.

Riona: [===|===|==-|---]

|668hp 823m 380mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 0'00 hours> No way!  You are still fighting!

Riona: [===|===|==-|---]

|668hp 823m 380mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 0'00 hours> fle

You flee from combat!

You can't see a thing!

Someone throws his something and hits you with one of them.

Someone's throw DISMEMBERS you!

|615hp 823m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 0'00 hours>

Your poison scratches you.

|614hp 823m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 0'00 hours>

You rub the dirt out of your eyes.

|614hp 823m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> n

Danpher rides in.

Alas, you cannot go that way.

|614hp 823m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> s

You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Danpher!'

Danpher's slash decimates you!

Your faith holding fast, you stop the blow with Volgathras's power.

Your faith holding fast, you stop the blow with Volgathras's power.

Danpher's pierce decimates you!

Danpher kicks dirt in your eyes!

Danpher's kicked dirt scratches you.

You can't see a thing!

Your steel shards injure someone.

Someone throws his something and hits you with one of them.

Someone's blow wounds you gravely.

You feel poison coursing through your veins.

Someone's throw MUTILATES you!

No way!  You are still fighting!

Riona: [===|===|---|---]

|515hp 821m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> s

No way!  You are still fighting!

Riona: [===|===|---|---]

|515hp 821m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> fle

You couldn't escape!

Riona: [===|===|---|---]

|515hp 821m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> s

Someone's slash maims you!

Your faith holding fast, you stop the blow with Volgathras's power.

Someone's slash devastates you!

Your steel shards maim someone!

Someone's poison scratches you.

Someone sidesteps your attack.

Someone's circle sidestep hits you.

Someone parries a light sword's slice.

Riona: [===|==-|---|---]

|437hp 820m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> fle

fle

No way!  You are still fighting!

Riona: [===|==-|---|---]

|437hp 820m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> You couldn't escape!

Riona: [===|==-|---|---]

|437hp 820m 379mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> fle

fle

You flee from combat!

Someone's wounding scratches you.

You can't see a thing!

Someone throws his something and hits you with one of them.

Someone's throw LACERATES you!

|390hp 820m 378mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> fle

Someone's poison scratches you.

|389hp 820m 378mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> n

Someone rides in.

You aren't fighting anyone.

|389hp 820m 378mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> n

You aren't fighting anyone.

|389hp 820m 378mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by someone!'

Someone's slash maims you!

Someone's chest kick hits you.

Someone's pierce maims you!

Someone's slash devastates you!

Someone's pierce decimates you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

Your faith holding fast, you stop the blow with Volgathras's power.

Your steel shards maul someone.

Someone throws his something and hits you with one of them.

You feel poison coursing through your veins.

Someone's throw DISMEMBERS you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

You flee from combat!

Someone's wounding scratches you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

You can't see a thing!

Someone throws his something and hits you with one of them.

Someone's throw LACERATES you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

|145hp 819m 377mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> Someone's wounding scratches you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

You can't see a thing!

|144hp 819m 376mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 1'00 hours> Chestbuster springs!

Something's shrapnel === DISINTEGRATES === you!

You have been KILLED!!

 

So since my cabal is being attacked, I head back home to try to interfere. Due to the traps, I will get hit by a double round from murder, in which he also blinds me immediately, instantly dropping me ~300 hp (at least the antimagic didn't rip me wide open). This is before I can use a single spell/skill in combat. Since I am already dying after a single round, I flee. If I'd fled into the trap, I'd been dead and if I'd fled into my cabal guard, I might've been able to recall (which would also have left me dead before recovering from lag). I overspammed the flee, but honestly, even if the first one went through, I'd have been in a pretty shitty situation. I realize I kind of suck at PK, but I've never ever felt as completely helpless as when trying to deal with the sheer damage output of Warmasters. Bear in mind, I'm also playing one of the more defensive caster classes (shield block and parry, been using holy hands to avoid being disarmed as well as getting the extra attack from the lightsword). My gear sort of sucks with me sitting at roughly -550 AC and 1,000 health, and I just have no idea what to even do. It's getting late and I'm heading to bed, just needed half a second to vent, and hopefully someone can tell me what I need to start working towards to not instantly die every time I defend my standard (better gear is the obvious answer, but I'm honestly trying my best to find groups).

Anonymous poster hash: ed49a...0e0

I must say that was rough to watch but you seemed to have walked in just as I was at 100 percent, dual wielding weapons you don't know, I had my forms going, all my buffs up and even zero hour haste to try and kill the guard and you arrived just has I used it.

I can't give you exact answers because cabal warfare is always rough,

• I would get your AC up to around 800 mark, I was simply missing attacks on Malkael (Lich) and I monitored his suit which was most definitely AC based. 

• Change up from holy hands, use a no remove weapon and no remove shield, I've disarmed your shield a few times now. A physical weapon with an Ember would be ideal. Maybe tentacle? a smoke blind will do wonders.

• Get some more Cabal ranks so you can take advantage of Age, Temporal Storm or if you go the other route, Chronoshield. 

Some other communers I have fought recently like Nebu, I didn't hit them nearly as much as you. I swear he had ungodly shield block.

I also had a challenge with an uncaballed Fire Giant Cleric, Aviur I think his name was, he really gave me a run for my money, I kind of wish he stayed around as he knew how to play a communer well.

- Danpher

Anonymous poster hash: 1ca1c...c9c

I bet after that ravaging you are starting to miss me! 😄

-Berston

Anonymous poster hash: 70434...263

Sorry to break it to you but will never do any better. A nodisarm weapon and shield will postpone your death 2 rounds, -1000 ac will postpone your death another 2 rounds where neither of these 'enhancements' do anything for your offense. 

Him being a thief he will dictate when and where the encounters take place, he will always get the murder rounds and always have traps set up. His magic resistance + stance turns your entire offensive game into a laughing stock which means the only way to contend with him is to out melee him. 

Offense wins fights, not defense.

I personally don't play casters. I've never really enjoyed them, but FL these days is all about the melee. If you're NOT going melee, you're already starting out gimped. Equipment is so far outta whack that by the time your spells actually land, you're prolly dead or close to.

Aabahran: The Melee Lands.

Unfortunately Gladiator works far too well in a Thief's favor. They can circle stab you while being targeted (which in every other case they cannot to take advantage of it), autothrow if you flee or they open up with murder which is pretty much what Danpher has done every character I've done a challenge with him on, and add in the fact that he's magic resistant. His suit is stacked with saves so it makes it harder for you to capitalize and AC honestly doesn't work too well either. Sure he'll miss more often, but your damage output will need to be extremely high for it to work in your favor. On Zanar I had -700AC and better in many armor classes, on top of a very high hit/dam that basically just prolonged my loss by a few rounds or so. It gave me enough time to literally scroll up and look at what he was doing while in combat without it outright wrecking me had I been any other class.

To me I think Thief in Gladiator should be looked at specifically because it's a bit much to try and overcome. He can basically enchant his weapons making them Gladiator only blades that give massive spikes to hit/dam from what I've seen. To boot Halfling also gets a bonus to using swords and daggers as it's an extra boost for them specifically. This usually means that he can capitalize on this against classes who cannot disarm and he doesn't have to worry about it. Considering the way Thieves fight typically I've never thought they should be able to go Gladiator anyways, but I'm sure I'm in the minority on that aspect, but if they couldn't at least you'd have a higher chance of success against them. Sure Malkael was AC based, but he also had a few more offensive spells at his disposal that deal large damage compared to yourself.

Definitely try and gain an ember though if you decide to use a weapon. I know that it sucks being disarmed, but you can find weapons that are at least nodrop so you can possibly take advantage of the fire blind if you did so. Since he can boost his hit/dam a bit and capitalize on swords and daggers (assuming he did so in this fight at least), he can focus on saves and not have to worry. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if his hit/dam was higher than my current character which is typically around the mid 50's when I've got most spells up. Since you're a non giant cleric, decking yourself out in melee gear doesn't really seem to do a whole lot of good for you either. I'd replace a lot of that gear with some +hp gear and saves with AC to try and give you a prolonged life even if you only last a couple more rounds. It's hard to say for sure though what all else could help, but even then I think you'll have issues with him due to reasons already mentioned.

I had a Barbarian Thief during the time Sepahoona (Drow Cleric Temp L, T at the time I was fighting him) was running things. He used scrolls of detect traps and scrolls of defusion all the time against my thief and it was a pain in the ass. So that may be an option for you, but it is expensive. Though even if you manage to put out an offense, he will be magic resistant to start so it will always be tough. 

In this situation, at this time, I would work on peeling away his layers. Try to fight him where he hasn't set up traps, if at all possible. I know he will usually have the area outfitted with traps around your cabal, so if you can break those down then you at least have a hope to defend. He won't be letting you do that for free though, so this will never not be a tough fight... but T Temp skills will help a lot. That may just be a long time to wait though...

Meh....get some detect trap scrolls as well as scrolls of defusion...the high ac will help, don't force yourself to fight him on his terms.  You will never beat him in melee straight up, you will need to wear him down and cure dance.....a cleric should never die to a thief really... Lol.

Unless I missed it, you didn't shield block once.

Are you sure you were wearing a shield in this engagement? I'd set up some triggers for when it gets disarmed until you're able to get your hands on a noremove one.

Don't get disheartened and don't be afraid to ask on the prayer forum for help, if you don't have journeyman already I would inquire about getting that.

Detect traps scrolls work, unless the thief is sitting in a room with two exits set with traps and spamming murder. The real killer here is the lag you get from the traps. I can understand dispel magic lagging a bit (even though 2 rounds is too much), but I don't understand why the other traps need to lag as well. The lag from the traps allows any thief to take advantage of murder rounds very easily.

The next thing, which Tant touched is that gladiator has some of the best synergies with thieves a cabal can offer. There are very few synergies between class/cabal that gain you SO MUCH. Add to that the fact that he is a magic resist race, (it's funny that nexus has a skill to overcome magic resist, but not savant???) and you are up for some rough time.

Lastly, if you're going to post logs showing how unfairly strong your enemy is, use a shield at least? 😜

If he's spamming murder in a room and he's visible while you're in the Ford, quaff an invis potion and summon him to Daryth. Sure you may fail a few times, but it means you also have a chance to be successful and if you're really lucky, he wont flee north with retreat and he lands in the room with Valcor. That's like a last ditch effort though and you'll have to be desperate at that point.

The thing that gets me is that Barbarians who are allowed to use magic can't use items to gain their perks of non Warmaster items, but a Gladiator who shuns magic can. For instance the Gauntlets of Rage have a LOT of saves, but it's noremove as a trade off and grants you haste with a bit of damage from using it as well. I was playing a Ranger Barbarian about a year ago and I couldn't even use staves so I just tossed the character since I was a bit annoyed by it.

Traps shouldn't ever lag a person IMHO unless it's the one trap that no one ever uses really forcing them to be stopped due to combat. Dispel magic doesn't lag you if it's cast on you as the spell, it only lags the person casting for a round. How it can be played out to lag you for two is a bit annoying (though I haven't hit one of these in forever, but I can definitely say that Chestbuster does lag and rather painfully too).

Scrolls would definitely help, so befriend a Dark Knight and see if they would be willing to try and extort a few for you if possible. I always forget about them because I don't really play Savants anymore except for when I'm feeling a little nostalgic and remember the days I would play and steam roll people. Now I log on and get my ass beat by the Warmaster Inductee's with their arms and legs tied behind their back. You don't want to know what they're beating me with at that point, but it's definitely painful.

Someone posted out I didn't shield block in the fight, which would be embarrassing and awkward if I did not have a shield equipped (guess it maybe got disarmed earlier?). I ended the session so I can't say for sure.

Anyway, I was just kind of frustrated. Most of my fights have been me taking obscene amounts of damage while dealing none myself. I hope with some better equipment and (eventually) Temporal Storm, I may stand a better chance in PK. At the very least I'm dying far less than with my last character (it feels good to play a protective shield class again).

• Riona

Anonymous poster hash: ed49a...0e0

EQ isn't everything as a Cleric, but it will still help you. It's possible you lost it earlier in the fight, but it's also possible that his hitroll is high enough that he manages to get around that aspect. If that's the case, that's a whole other issue at hand. Temporal Storm and such are nice, but age I honestly feel is far better because it can randomly make your skills drop by 50% if successful. Even if it does land though there's a chance it'll nail 'recall' which is a bitch and a half. Have you thought about having someone make the weather bad for you and call lightning on him? If not, you may look  into that (there's a stave for call lightning if you didn't already know) and see how things work for you then. Don't be afraid to think outside of the box though, you may get steam rolled for a while even if you were given Trusted right now. Once you start catching onto their quirks, you'll find it far easier to force them into your own game eventually which benefits you most. The fact that it bottle necks at multiple points within the Ford though, I'd suggest trying to get him somewhere he can't hide so you don't get blinded by dirt by autokicks which he can rely heavily on if need be.

While this log is rough - the main thing it showcases is how powerful a Glad thief can be when fought in the room it has prepped to fight in.

In this situation I'd let him take the standard, and try and fight him as he is trying to return it. As a cleric you need to be fighting in open areas where you can keep moving and flee hit.  I also agree that the lag on traps is a bit much.

18 hours ago, Anonymous said:

I also had a challenge with an uncaballed Fire Giant Cleric, Aviur I think his name was, he really gave me a run for my money, I kind of wish he stayed around as he knew how to play a communer well.

- Danpher

Anonymous poster hash: 1ca1c...c9c

 

I had a lot of hope for that char, both pk- and rp-wise. I really enjoyed playing him. Stayed uncaballed at first kindof hoping that a few Savant hopefuls would spring up, but they never did. Didn't feel like condieing in a week. Got extremely busy with work and had to step away for a few weeks, came back and was purged.

For what it's worth to player of Riona: on an FG cleric, with the right weapons, I find it to be a lot more fun to just ditch the AC concerns and go straight up hit/dam and take advantage of the fire giant stuff. Aviur was faith, so DI and holy hands weren't really applicable in those WM fights anyways - could've been useful against a BLM, I suppose, but never really saw a fight with one. Clerics can be played a lot of different ways, but one of your most powerful abilities is the old attrition game....and that kinda goes out the window in a cabal/standard fight vs a trap-setting WM in the gnarly corridor between the two cabals. I have not played a cle/sha other than FG to any success at all, so this stuff may not translate well to a race other than FG. Duergar combat cle seem to do well pretty frequently, iirc. 

Anyways, as an aside, I still firmly believe that FG cleric with the right religion and a few key pieces of eq (perm flight item, adeptus mask, solar mace, grasp of wendigo, etc) is one of the most powerful and versatile race/class combos in the game. Add in the stuff from temporum on top of that and they can make a real shit show of everything, and essentially never die to anything but a couple select combos unless they make a big mistake somewhere. I would imagine that Meliael would make pretty quick work of FG. Mino Warrior WM's (ab)using the charge stuff were super problematic on the last one I played a few yrs ago (Nuraya), but I think that has been changed?

 

miss u danphy ^_^

❤️ Aviur

Anonymous poster hash: f82ab...c5e

Just want to emphasize the part mentioned above about wielding a weapon instead of holy hands. You'll do much better. Make sure you bless it.

The antimagic springs!

Sensing the antimagic's magical aura you partialy resist its effect.

You feel less sick.

You can no longer detect traps.

Your skin feels soft again.

You feel less righteous.

The white aura around your body fades.

You slowly float to the ground.

Your protective shield dissipates.

The black flames about you die off.

The Arms of Gaia no longer protect you.

You no longer see invisible objects.

You can no longer sense magical auras.

You feel less armored.

You feel solid again.

|993hp 869m 292mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 20'00 hours>

Danpher walks in.

|993hp 869m 292mv 17567tnl>

|D(ism)ounted 20'00 hours>

You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Danpher!'

 

I was ~105% sure I would get away through whatever that trap was (almost full health and -69 svs vs mental), but you got me again. As for using age, it would use up two rounds and not really do anything else in most cases (that I'm aware of at least) ; your saves are pretty high and you're magic resist, so most of my other spells would be saved regardless. Congratulations on the kill. You're a genuine certified hobbit beast. Now I'm heading off to lick my wounds and grab some breakfast, but I'll probably catch you around again later (wohoo, I have a noremove shield now!).

• Riona

Anonymous poster hash: ed49a...0e0

Age has many purposes, firstly it never misses so it's a guaranteed 10 saving spell debuff. Secondly it will cancel haste if I have it. Thirdly it will minus a skill by 50 and if that happens to be a weapon I am using then goodbye forms and melee damage. It also lasts quite a while which is nice and a good prep spell before trying to land a curse for further hit to my saving spell.

You lasted a lot longer that time and braved running straight in and taking your standard back. 

I just got lucky on that trap, I've seen it fail over and over on people with decent saves but sometimes you get a bad roll and it seems I got a lot of your vital spells, where did that Arms of Gaia come from? 🤫

You're improving and I hope to see you well seasoned by the end of this character.

- Danpher

Anonymous poster hash: 1ca1c...c9c

The arms was from travelling with Thyrius last session. Reverse time kinda lets me keep buffs for a lot longer. And yeah, the dispel hit sanc, flight, and 160acs. The lag on hitting traps is annoying. Maybe I should've recalled instead of walking into it.

• Riona

Anonymous poster hash: ed49a...0e0

It's a good thing you partially resisted it lmao 😒